Advantages / Disadvantages

[variant]

I do not want to see +3/-3, it gets rid of the appealing features of rolling a second d20. It reduces the DC he can hit while being at a disadvantage and increases the DC he can hit while having the advantage. Also, having extra math is just annoying and isn't fun at all. Both 3e and 4e had +2/-2 circumstance modifiers, how many here actually remembered to use them?

 

[merchantsteve]

I do not want to see +3/-3, it gets rid of the appealing features of rolling a second d20. It reduces the DC he can hit while being at a disadvantage and increases the DC he can hit while having the advantage. Also, just having extra math is just annoying and isn't fun at all. Both 3e and 4e had +2/-2 circumstance modifiers, how many here actually remembered to use them?

That is my personal preference as well. Give me the multiple dice!

 

[Kzach]

I don't like the multiple dice in D&D. First, it doesn't feel like D&D.

I can't help but laugh at this. Rolling two 20-sided dice at the same time doesn't feel like D&D? Seriously, you have to be joking, right?

 

[ggroy]

Let's examine the numbers in rolling two d20's in the advantage case. A success is when one or both of the d20 rolls are a success.

Let p = probability of success of a single d20 roll.

Let P2 = probability both or one of d20 rolls are a success.


The probability of the two d20's being failures = (1-p)^2

Probably of rolling a success P2 = 1 - (1-p)^2 = 2 p - p^2


Plugging in some numbers:

p = 0.95, P2 = 0.9975
p = 0.90, P2 = 0.99
p = 0.85, P2 = 0.9775
p = 0.80, P2 = 0.96
p = 0.75, P2 = 0.9375
p = 0.70, P2 = 0.91
p = 0.65, P2 = 0.8775
p = 0.60, P2 = 0.84
p = 0.55, P2 = 0.7975
p = 0.50, P2 = 0.75
p = 0.45, P2 = 0.6975
p = 0.40, P2 = 0.64
p = 0.35, P2 = 0.5775
p = 0.30, P2 = 0.51
p = 0.25, P2 = 0.4375
p = 0.20, P2 = 0.36
p = 0.15, P2 = 0.2775
p = 0.10, P2 = 0.19
p = 0.05, P2 = 0.0975


In the disadvantage case, the probability of a successful roll is when both d20's are a success is p^2. (p is the probability of rolling a success on one d20).

Plugging in numbers.

p = 0.95, p^2 = 0.9025
p = 0.90, p^2 = 0.81
p = 0.85, p^2 = 0.7225
p = 0.80, p^2 = 0.64
p = 0.75, p^2 = 0.5625
p = 0.70, p^2 = 0.49
p = 0.65, p^2 = 0.4225
p = 0.60, p^2 = 0.36
p = 0.55, p^2 = 0.3025
p = 0.50, p^2 = 0.25
p = 0.45, p^2 = 0.2025
p = 0.40, p^2 = 0.16
p = 0.35, p^2 = 0.1225
p = 0.30, p^2 = 0.09
p = 0.25, p^2 = 0.0625
p = 0.20, p^2 = 0.04
p = 0.15, p^2 = 0.0225
p = 0.10, p^2 = 0.01
p = 0.05, p^2 = 0.0025

 

[Rolflyn]

I can't help but laugh at this. Rolling two 20-sided dice at the same time doesn't feel like D&D? Seriously, you have to be joking, right?

While I'm happy to provide a laugh, I have to disappoint you because I'm not joking.

Rolling two d20s and taking the higher (or lower) isn't something that feels D&D to me. What feels the most D&D to me is rolling a single d20 to resolve an action.

 

[sheadunne]

While I'm happy to provide a laugh, I have to disappoint you because I'm not joking.

Rolling two d20s and taking the higher (or lower) isn't something that feels D&D to me. What feels the most D&D to me is rolling a single d20 to resolve an action.

Agreed. I like the roll two dice mechanic, but not as a core mechanic of the game. An exception to the rule on a spell or ability is fine, but it's going to be abused every chance it gets in game design (it's already way to abundant in the play test docs). Monsters will have special abilities that make everyone have disadvantage (pathfinder did it with the pugwampi and all my players HATED that). Once something is a core mechanic it gets abused (rerolls, swift/minor actions, immediate actions, etc, all got out of hand).

I'll vote no.

 

[drothgery]

That is my personal preference as well. Give me the multiple dice!

The problem is that probability math gets funny with reroll mechanics (and that, anecdotes notwithstanding, adding and/or subtracting is faster than re-rolling).

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Rolling two d20s and taking the higher (or lower) isn't something that feels D&D to me. What feels the most D&D to me is rolling a single d20 to resolve an action.

D20 for everything is so middle school.

In my day rogues rolled d100 all the time for their abilities and clerics had 2d6 on standby for turning undead.

And we colored in the numbers on the die with crayons!

DS

 

[KesselZero]

That was my first reaction to the situation too. Then, I realized that could quickly become as fiddly as counting +1 bonuses. "Wait! Am I standing on the table? Didn't somebody Bless me last round?"

That's a really good point. So maybe the intent is actually that since you can only have Advantage or Disadvantage no matter how many times you "get it," having both will cancel out. That would certainly be faster. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Stalker0]

I really like the advantage system right now, but the argument about using it with a lot of monsters has merit.

I will see how it works with the kobold encounters. Since they have a solid way to get advantage and there are lots of them, we should be able to see if the extra rolling is too much.