D&D 5E Adventures

[dd.stevenson]

According to Ryan Dancey, this isn't the case, or at least it wasn't when Hasbro first took over. Due to the way the deal was structured, Hasbro viewed each product line within WotC as a separate brand, and the word came down to focus on "core brands," which were defined as "$50 million with a path to $100 million." The D&D product line was around $25 to $30 million, and 4E suffered tremendously from the pressure to bring it up to the "core brand" benchmark. Everyone knew it was a pipe dream, but they had to pretend it could be done and design a semi-realistic plan to do it. They ended up charting a course that involved using DDI subscriptions to get to $50M and, in the long run, transitioning to a D&D MMO to reach $100M.

Just want to point out that the bolded bit does not follow from Ryan Dancey's posts. It would be very odd if Slavicsek and the VP of Marketing who bet their careers on DDI did not believe they could pull it off. And, FWIW, Dancey seems to believe that the best way for D&D to remain a viable business proposition is for it to move into the MMO space.

I hope he's wrong, of course.

Mike Mearls replaced Bill Slavicsek but got a lesser-sounding title - and I know titles are a HUGE thing in US corporate life - so it could reflect a downgrade of the department.

That was my inference as well. A "Senior Manager of" is less than a Director, and there's no way this bodes well for the D&D line.

So it is the height of our own fancy to think that the RPG part of the D&D brand has any impact or meaning to the big wigs in the Hasbro offices.

I think there's another angle too: scapegoating. It's much more pleasant for us to believe that faceless corporate suits are responsible for the mismanagement of the D&D brand, than to believe that our beloved fellow-gamers at WotC cocked it up.

 

[Dausuul]

Just want to point out that the bolded bit does not follow from Ryan Dancey's posts. It would be very odd if Slavicsek and the VP of Marketing who bet their careers on DDI did not believe they could pull it off. And, FWIW, Dancey seems to believe that the best way for D&D to remain a viable business proposition is for it to move into the MMO space.

Ah, okay, fair point there.

On that assessment I disagree with Dancey; the MMO space is already occupied by people with a lot more resources and a lot more experience than Wizards. Becoming a pale shadow of World of Warcraft would never work. I do think technology is an important part of D&D's future, but as an adjunct to the core of the game, not a replacement.

I think there's another angle too: scapegoating. It's much more pleasant for us to believe that faceless corporate suits are responsible for the mismanagement of the D&D brand, than to believe that our beloved fellow-gamers at WotC cocked it up.

The two are not mutually exclusive. Regardless of what the suits did, there were some clear cock-ups at WotC; for instance, their handling of technology throughout 4E has been frankly abysmal (yet another reason they wouldn't have a prayer trying to go MMO).

 

[Hussar]

By the same token, both Paizo and WOTC have just jumped into the MMO market pretty strongly.

 

[Weather Report]

It's much more pleasant for us to believe that faceless corporate suits are responsible for the mismanagement of the D&D brand, than to believe that our beloved fellow-gamers at WotC cocked it up.

Yep, in the end I believe putting the line in the hands of Heinsoo & Co. was not a smooth move.

 

[Dausuul]

By the same token, both Paizo and WOTC have just jumped into the MMO market pretty strongly.

This is me not betting on their success. The MMO market is unbelievably crowded, and neither Pathfinder Online nor Neverwinter appears to be doing anything that would let them get out of Warcraft's shadow. (Sandbox MMO? It's been done, repeatedly.) The best they can hope to do is find a niche feeding on Blizzard's scraps.

There already is an MMO version of Dungeons and Dragons, and its name is World of Warcraft. Pathfinder Online and Neverwinter are the MMO equivalent of fantasy heartbreakers.

 

[keterys]

Well, there is a D&D MMO called D&D Online. It's possible it actually makes more money than WotC or Paizo does with their tabletop efforts, right now.

There is plenty of room to be profitable on a scale (millions, not billions) good for WotC or Paizo, but not competing with WoW. Some companies do get to be the Green Ronins of the industry. One of the biggest hurdles is making the MMO in an affordable fashion, and being able to risk the millions necessary to go from inception to actual.

That said, I got very turned off by the Pathfinder MMO process (kickstarter to demo, then kickstarter again, both leveraging tabletop rewards to draw in investment capital to an unproven company with a lack of demonstrable ready resources). I wish them all the luck in the world, and maybe I'll dive into it if it comes out, but their decisions there are a big part of what let me lapse my monthly subscription. It has been odd not getting my monthly bundles of game product, though.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

There was an article or interview last year mentioning that the release schedule for Next products wasn't intended to be as packed as other editions. They said that they are expanding the idea of D&D beyond the table-top game and including board games, video games, comics, etc. If you pay attention to the layout of the site you will see this manifesting.

As someone who has little interest in D&D outside of the role-playing game (and an occasional single player computer game), I actually like this. It means that the financial future and performance of the brand aren't hanging on the rpg. Which in turn gives them the opportunity to take their time and not rush out unfinished or inferior products just to meet publication demands. They've still got at least a year or more before Next is ready, but they have other ways of paying the design team.

 

[Hussar]

This is me not betting on their success. The MMO market is unbelievably crowded, and neither Pathfinder Online nor Neverwinter appears to be doing anything that would let them get out of Warcraft's shadow. (Sandbox MMO? It's been done, repeatedly.) The best they can hope to do is find a niche feeding on Blizzard's scraps.

There already is an MMO version of Dungeons and Dragons, and its name is World of Warcraft. Pathfinder Online and Neverwinter are the MMO equivalent of fantasy heartbreakers.

But, a game doesn't have to be Warcraft to be successful. Good grief, that's like saying if you're not Google, you can't have a successful online business. It's all about scale. A nice mid-range MMO is certainly profitable, even if they're not the size of Warcraft.

Being able to leverage the D&D IP into an MMO seems a no-brainer to me. D&D videogames have long been pretty popular. I imagine that the orginal Neverwinter Nights CRPG probably made more money than 3e ever did. Baldur's Gate possibly as well.

 

[delericho]

As someone who has little interest in D&D outside of the role-playing game (and an occasional single player computer game), I actually like this. It means that the financial future and performance of the brand aren't hanging on the rpg. Which in turn gives them the opportunity to take their time and not rush out unfinished or inferior products just to meet publication demands.

That's a good thing, right up until the company in question has some bad results, and decides to "focus on our core business". At which point the D&D RPG gets treated like the peripheral matter it is, and gets dumped.

(And worse, because it's the D&D RPG that's the peripheral matter, not the D&D brand, there's no prospect of them selling, or even licensing it out.)

Still, until we get to that point, there are distinct advantages in flying under the radar.

 

[BRW Games]

Bear in mind that Dungeons and Dragons never gets mentioned in the Hasbro annual or quarterly reports. That, right there, is indicative of the fact that it's seen as a minor player, and when Corporate sees something that way, so does the subsidiary. And unless this new D&D movie pulls in $100 million and/or establishes a new lucrative film franchise, that's not going to change.