Advice for a fellow DM

[Rezzin]

I need some advice here. I am trying to help a fellow DM out. The DM in question wants to start a 4E game where you have access to EVERYTHING. You basically choose your race and then at level one you can take any power, from any class - as long is it fits your level. You wouldn't even have to take powers if you didn't want to. You could load up on feats and ability score increases. You see he has devised a "point buy" type system where you can buy options (skills, abilities, feats, powers etc.) as you level. I warned him that this seemed like a recipe for disaster but I could just be over reacting. Has anyone ever tried anything like this? It seems like an intriguing concept but for some reason I think it is doomed to fail. Would there be the potential more some truly degenerate builds with a concept like this?

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I need some advice here. I am trying to help a fellow DM out. The DM in question wants to start a 4E game where you have access to EVERYTHING. You basically choose your race and then at level one you can take any power, from any class - as long is it fits your level. You wouldn't even have to take powers if you didn't want to. You could load up on feats and ability score increases. You see he has devised a "point buy" type system where you can buy options (skills, abilities, feats, powers etc.) as you level. I warned him that this seemed like a recipe for disaster but I could just be over reacting. Has anyone ever tried anything like this? It seems like an intriguing concept but for some reason I think it is doomed to fail. Would there be the potential more some truly degenerate builds with a concept like this?

Given the glut, I'd be reluctant to allow everything in 3e, Pathfinder, or 4e. I hate to say it, but there's bad classes, feats, and powers out there.

Under this setup, I'd expect almost everyone to take a defender class as the "base" (best hit points, surges/day, and armor proficiencies, although the latter might not be relevant), then max out Int (for controller, probably wizard or psion; invoker is also good but Wis isn't so good) or Dex (for striker, probably ranger) to get the best control or damage plus the best AC score. It would get even crazier if you allow hybrids.

 

[GMMichael]

You see he has devised a "point buy" type system where you can buy options (skills, abilities, feats, powers etc.) as you level. I warned him that this seemed like a recipe for disaster but I could just be over reacting. Has anyone ever tried anything like this? It seems like an intriguing concept but for some reason I think it is doomed to fail.

Tried it? I built an entire RPG around it. It's a great idea!

In terms of Forry, as far as I understand it, the powers aren't identical, but they're all comparable at the same character level. So all that you lose by mixing powers is class identity.

 

[The Human Target]

You'll never know until you try.

 

[Sunseeker]

In terms of Forry, as far as I understand it, the powers aren't identical, but they're all comparable at the same character level. So all that you lose by mixing powers is class identity.

More or less. Though a feat is not on par with most powers. That aside, the biggest problem is just that you can really really break some classes through power-feature-feat combinations not normally available to that class.

 

[The Human Target]

I figure any DM who would consider such a thing knows it could get hugely unbalanced and just doesn't care.

A big thing to remember is that ability scores are going to hugely limit power combos and potency.

Not that it won't get wacky.

 

[sabrinathecat]

Hmmm... use the fighter as a base, and take Twin-Strike for the at-will.

Yes, it could be abused to cherry-pick, but on the other hand, class features are class features. A fighter is not likely to take int-based powers. And no matter what, characters only get 1 standard, 1 move, and 1 minor action, plus one immediate action, and every other encounter, 1 action point.
This is the problem I run into with solos. No matter how cool they are, they only get so many actions.

 

[The Human Target]

Hmmm... use the fighter as a base, and take Twin-Strike for the at-will.

Yes, it could be abused to cherry-pick, but on the other hand, class features are class features. A fighter is not likely to take int-based powers. And no matter what, characters only get 1 standard, 1 move, and 1 minor action, plus one immediate action, and every other encounter, 1 action point.
This is the problem I run into with solos. No matter how cool they are, they only get so many actions.

Those darn solos need extra turns.

Then they become... Beautiful.

 

[Lindeloef]

A thing that could end up horrible for the DM (cause it will cause more work) is, when an amount of characters equal to the amount of encounter per day take "Moment of Glory" (Cleric lvl 1 daily).

Resist 5 damage in all encounters... urgs

 

[the Jester]

And no matter what, characters only get 1 standard, 1 move, and 1 minor action, plus one immediate action, and every other encounter, 1 action point.
This is the problem I run into with solos. No matter how cool they are, they only get so many actions.

That's easily fixed.

Those darn solos need extra turns.

Then they become... Beautiful.

Or let them use three standard actions on their turn. Or give them lots of free interrupts, opportunity actions and immediate actions. Or....