Advice for Dealing with Improved Trip Feat

[TimSmith]

I think they move at half-movement and provoke AoO's or something.

Actually they move 5 feet if crawling and they do indeed provoke AoO's. (p 142 PHB).

Whilst prone they are -4 to hit and -4 to AC in melee as well, of course.

 

[Darmanicus]

DISINTEGRATE the halberd!

Seriously, from what I've read on this thread, there are more than enough ways to counter this player.

My advice would be to let him use his trip/enlarge trick most of the time. Don't penalize a player for coming up with something that gets results. On the other hand, those BBEG's who know of this character, (in fact any enemy), will prepare appropriately, all dependent on what resources are to hand.

BBEG's - Will have dispels, can fly, be mounted, use battlefield control magics, disarm, sunder etc etc.

Others - Will swarm the fighter, use long range weaponry, use terrain to their advantage etc. etc.

You see where I'm coming from.

 

[Tinner]

Charm/Dominate the tripper, then have him use his nifty trip tactics on the rest of the party.
Odds are they'll handle the problem for you.

 

[Staffan]

Personally, I do think Improved trip got a little too good in 3.5e. In 3.0, it prevented the AoO from tripping and gave you a free attack if you succeeded. In 3.5, the feat got one change (add +4 to the tripping attempt), and the tripping mechanic itself got a major boost - getting up provokes an AoO. Personally, I think that either the free attack should be removed from Improved Trip, or the AoO for getting up from prone. Otherwise, you're basically getting two attacks for the price of one when tripping someone, and that's just wrong.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Incorporeal BBEG

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Ranged attacks, if it takes a few rounds to reach the BBEG then it will be a pin cushion that arrives. if the BBEG is a wizards then it is a crispy pin cushion.

Mirror image. Whoopes, wrong Wizard Fizzbang!

Blur. Anything that hurts the chance to hit hurts the chance to trip.

Minions with reach.

Invisible is always good.

Dogs. They automatically have the trip attack, and cannot be tripped in turn.

Flying minions.

Swarms for minions.

The Auld Grump

 

[Storm Raven]

Here's what I'd do:

I'd tell the player, 'Hey, you got me, Improved Trip works really well. So well that it's probably going to end up looking obvious that I'm contriving enemies that are immune to it. Then you'll get irritated, and we'll get in an arms race, and so on.

That's just silly. That would be like asking the cleric not to turn undead, so that you could throw undead against the party, or asking the wizard not to cast his highest level spells and so on. The real solution is to throw a variety of enemies at the party, and not have a bunch of easily trippable guys as the focus of your adventure. This is easy to do:

Opponents resist with Strength or Dexterity (or Balance, if you use the Complete Adventurer rules). Give him opponents with comparatively high Strength, or high Dexterity, or high Balance skills. None of which should be unusual or surprising at his level.

Give him Large enemies (who are usually also strong) like ogres, giants and dire animals. Four legged large, strong creatures (like dire wolves, for example) are not unusual, nor should their appearance be surprising.

Give him sessile or four-legged enemies. Or flying enemies. Or many small enemies. And so on. If you provide a variety of opposititon, then the player will be forced to use a variety of tactics. If you provide a limited set of foes, then the same tactics will work again and again against them.

But here's something important: do provide foes that play into his strengths. Players should get to shine in the course of the game. Don't make all the opponents untrippable, make sure he can use his favorite tactic sometimes, even if it is against the BBEG. But make sure you throw a variety of opponents out there, because that will make him do other things (and likely give the other party members a chance to shine).

 

[ST]

(sorry, I forgot I was logged in under another account -- I'm the guy you quoted above.)

Well, okay. But it just seems weird to me that everybody wants to approach this entirely from a rules perspective.

What people are saying is that rather than talk to him about having him use his ability to shine, but not overshadow the other PCs, the DM should change the adventures and the opponents they fight so that ... he uses his ability to shine, but not overshadow the other PCs.

It's quite an eye-opener to me that everybody thinks the latter tactic is the "easy" one. Especially since in the other thead about the same player, it looks like the player can easily keep adjusting to find new tactics to overshdow the other players. (Note I'm saying player, not character. This isn't a game-rules problem, in my opinion.)

Anyway, good luck with it. I hope the rules advice people gave you works.

 

[Storm Raven]

What people are saying is that rather than talk to him about having him use his ability to shine, but not overshadow the other PCs, the DM should change the adventures and the opponents they fight so that ... he uses his ability to shine, but not overshadow the other PCs.

Except that the PC in question appears to have really just one schtick: tripping people. And he's seemingly pretty ordinary otherwise. And that's pretty easy to deal with as a DM, just don't give them exclusively opponents who are easy to trip. And those types of opponents are common and not particularly difficult to work in without them being "grudge" villains. A variety of opponents is generally what a good DM should be doing anyway. This isn't a player problem, or even a character problem, its a DM problem, and one that is easily fixable.

It's quite an eye-opener to me that everybody thinks the latter tactic is the "easy" one. Especially since in the other thead about the same player, it looks like the player can easily keep adjusting to find new tactics to overshdow the other players. (Note I'm saying player, not character. This isn't a game-rules problem, in my opinion.)

If you give the players a variety of opponents, then they will use a variety of tactics, which is the point. Different players will get a chance to shine if you pit them against different foes. Once you get there, the problem is solved. But if a player comes up with a variety of tactics to defeat a variety of villains, then that's a good thing, not something to be scolding him for. Creative thinking is something that is a benefit to the game, not a detriment. DMs who think that creative thinking is a problem are generally lousy DMs who don't want their carefully crafted plans upset in a manner they didn't foresee.

 

[blargney the second]

Look up the Giantbane feat in Complete Warrior. After that he'll think twice about Enlarging!

-blarg