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Pathfinder 1E Advice for running Pathfinder

fjw70

Adventurer
Okay, I think I want to finally try running PF. For the last 4 years I have mostly run 4e (with a little BX, AD&D, and the PF beginner's game mixed in). Prior to that I played 3.5 for a few months and back in the 80s I played a lot of AD&D. I still like 4e a lot but I want to take a break from it without getting away from D&D.

So any advice for an aspiring PF DM?
 

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athos

First Post
Start with an Adventure Path if you can afford one. Or better yet, have your players chip in.

The benefit of an AP, is that the monsters are already calibrated to the level of your party and the adventure is written for you. This will give you time to get used to PF, without having to really do a lot of the heavy lifting. They go from 1st level to like 16th.

Then once you have your feet wet, you can more easily create your own adventures since you will have had an example to learn the rules and power levels with.
 

fjw70

Adventurer
I have several APs so that isn't an issue. I was thinking of using Jade Regent.

I have many of the PF rulebooks as well, including CR and the first two bestiaries.
 

About level calibration, take with a grain of salt. So many DMs complain on the Paizo forums about PCs steamrolling encounters in APs. For good reason.

Do not be afraid to make encounters a lot harder. Toss in magical effects, more creatures, or more NPCs. Find the PRD link to the NPC Codex for the latter; you don't want to spend time making up NPCs yourself (unless the NPC is heavily plot-relevant). You will want to start with the encounters as written though, as some PCs/parties are very weak, and then gradually increase the difficulty if they're stomping all over everything.

The power level between classes vary, so look at what players are taking. I would strongly suggest not allowing the gunslinger or any flavor of summoner. The former uses a broken game mechanic (actually several, and some of the balancing restrictions aren't fun for the player) and the latter is so complicated that frequent character sheet audits are required. Pathfinder Society banned two summoner archetypes due to complexity (ironically the synthesist, one of those archetypes, is probably weaker than the typical summoner, but it's so easy to mess it up and get something overpowered).
 

Crothian

First Post
Best advice and this really works for any game is just have fun and keep talking to the players. Figure out what they want to do and allow it to happen. Pathfinder AP's are good but none of them are perfect. They do have a great resource on their forums from the fans and you can read about issues other people have had and get advice on how to solve them. It is very helpful and greatly improved each of the AP's I have ran and played in.
 

Kinak

First Post
@(Psi)SeveredHead pretty much nails it, as far as adjustments. If you have an experienced group, generous stat assignment, or any pro-player houserules, they can overmatch enemies in APs.

I've found I actually like this, with Rise of the Runelords, because it lets you play the enemies more reasonably. It's not strange for my players to pull in two or three encounters, creating one massive waved battle.

I'd second PFS's opinion on summoners. They may or may not be overpowered, but it's worth considering banning them and other summoning/companion builds due to concerns with table time. Especially if you have a big group, adding extra (sometimes lots of extra) members to the party can drag things down.

Compared to 4e, there's a stronger push towards the five minute workday. In some parts of Jade Regent, that's sort of expected (because you're traveling for long periods), but consider the encounter areas and what might happen if the party pops out for a day. It definitely pays to demonstrate that they're dealing with a living world and sometimes pushing on is the best option.

Cheers!
Kinak
 
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Dragonblade

Adventurer
I've played and DMed for 3e, 3.5e, 4e, and Pathfinder.

I like Pathfinder and 4e both, but I'm not going to sugarcoat it for you. Going from 4e to Pathfinder can be rough, especially for a DM.

Firstly, even if you are running an AP, there is a lot of prep time necessary for the DM. First, you need to review the monsters in the encounters you anticipate the players getting to in your next session. Many of the monster abilities will be listed as feats and spells. You'll need to look these up beforehand to make sure you understand how to smoothly run them in play. Some feats are passive, but some provide active abilities. Likewise, review all the spells listed so that you are familiar with the effect and the duration. Determine whether its likely that the monster has the spell pre-cast or not. Over time, as you begin to memorize certain common spells, this prep time will be lessened, but never completely eliminated. I started out needing about an hour per encounter to review everything. Later on, I only needed about 10-15 minutes per encounter.

My players tended to be optimizers, so unless it would have been extremely unlikely, I always defaulted to the monster having the necessary buff spell already activated even if the duration was short. Also, make a note of the buffs that are active including calculating out any necessary stat changes, and be prepared to have to roll back buffs on the fly in case something gets dispelled by a player.

Some of the APs provide boosted stat blocks for the monsters, but those aren't always correct. I frequently find errors in Paizo's post-buff stat blocks so I tend to ignore them. Plus, you still need to know how the spells work anyway in case you need to adjudicate something on the fly.

Be mindful of long lasting negative effects on the PCs. Poisons, diseases, curses and the like. Paizo loves to load up players with semi-permanent debilitating status effects that can cause a later encounter to be tougher than it looks on paper if the players haven't had a chance to recover. If no one is playing a cleric, I highly recommend providing an NPC cleric of comparable level who can heal and remove such conditions. Having these effects linger for more than two sessions really frustrates and annoys players, IME.

Also, if you have a lot of players who only decide what to do when their turn comes up, and then need to flip through a ton of books, you might need to address that. It can really bog the game down, and even a core only Pathfinder game is going to be subject to it if there are casters in the group. If they need to look up spells or something, they should have done that before their turn came up. Or they should bring a laptop so they can use the online PF SRD at the table. As DM, you'll definitely want to do this as well.

Also, its not uncommon for a PC to get hit with a spell or status effect that effectively removes them from the fight, which could end up being an hour or more of real time where the player literally has nothing to do. You might set things up so they can run a monster, manage initiative or do something else to keep them engaged in the game. Otherwise, you'll get OT chatter which only exacerbates the issue in the prior paragraph of players not staying focused.

Ultimately, going back to Pathfinder broke my group in half and we never recovered. Some guys never cared for 4e and didn't want to go back, and the ones that liked 4e refused to keeping playing Pathfinder over rules frustrations, such as a failed save basically ending game night early for them.
 

Dragonblade

Adventurer
About level calibration, take with a grain of salt. So many DMs complain on the Paizo forums about PCs steamrolling encounters in APs. For good reason.

Do not be afraid to make encounters a lot harder. Toss in magical effects, more creatures, or more NPCs. Find the PRD link to the NPC Codex for the latter; you don't want to spend time making up NPCs yourself (unless the NPC is heavily plot-relevant). You will want to start with the encounters as written though, as some PCs/parties are very weak, and then gradually increase the difficulty if they're stomping all over everything.

The power level between classes vary, so look at what players are taking. I would strongly suggest not allowing the gunslinger or any flavor of summoner. The former uses a broken game mechanic (actually several, and some of the balancing restrictions aren't fun for the player) and the latter is so complicated that frequent character sheet audits are required. Pathfinder Society banned two summoner archetypes due to complexity (ironically the synthesist, one of those archetypes, is probably weaker than the typical summoner, but it's so easy to mess it up and get something overpowered).

This is good advice. Pathfinder classes are uneven in power and balance, with spellcasters almost always better and more powerful than non-casters.

I had mostly optimizers so they avoided the underpowered classes. But if you have a mixed group of optimizers and role-players who don't try even a little, encounter difficulty will be uneven. The optimizers will end up killing most things too quickly, or the less optimized PCs will die or get knocked out of the fights too easily if the encounter is harder. It just results in frustration for everyone.

I had a couple players who weren't into the optimization aspect of the game, and even though I let them play what they wanted, I partnered them up with a more rules proficient player to help them make their character, so they wouldn't completely suck.
 

GreyLord

Legend
I'd try something other for a first PF adventure. I'd probably say go with one of the adventure modules, if you can get it I'd suggest Crypt of the Everflame.

Then if you want to keep going on that route, you could do a mini AP with Masks of the Living God

And then City of Golden Death.

If you want something else...beyond that...perhaps continue with Tower of the Last Baron and Treasure of Chimera Cove.

Only reason I say you could try to the modules is that this doesn't commit you to a 6 module (or Adventures, however you want to see them...all of which are two times the length of any of the modules listed above) adventure path...and if things don't work out, you are one and done...or if they do, you can keep on going for awhile and get a better and stronger grasp and various arenas of PF.

Then, after the mini-campaign, if everyone is still interested, you then can continue onwards with a full AP.

Just a thought.
 


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