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Pathfinder 1E Advice on Character Concept

alien270

First Post
Already posted this on rpgnet forums, but I figured I'd try here, too (wasn't getting any bites there).

Ok, so first thing's first. I first started RPing using 3rd edition, but switched over to 4E when that came out and since then I've been playing several other systems, generally leaning toward more narrative and less fiddly. I'm currently running 13th Age, and my group has been doing a second Pathfinder game for a while, which I did not participate in for lack of interest. However, that game is switching DMs and starting a new campaign, and the DM is going to bring in some elements from 13th Age (One Unique Thing, Icons, etc.), which has my interest piqued. I'd like to give the system another shot, mostly because I'd like to be in a second game. In other words, I'll likely be tolerating the system rather than actually liking it.

So with that out of the way, here's the concept I have in mind. Basically a sort of duelist gish, which I can take in two seemingly different directions but with both fitting the general backstory/narrative concept. I figure I'll be a melee skirmisher most of the type, with my spells being a combination of combat stuff and out of combat utility. Option 1 is a melee Druid, while Option 2 is a Bard. I'll be drawing from the PHB and the APG.

1 - Is Weapon Finesse a sound strategy for building these characters? The image I have is more of a dextrous type, and given that Dex would boost AC as well is attractive for a concept that has to maintain a spellcasting attribute as well as a melee attack attribute. I don't need it to be the best option, just not a bad one (I've made some awful 3.5 characters trying to stick with a concept due to the system's inherent imbalances and fiddliness). I know damage will be less since you still add Str mod for that, but will the effect be drastic or minor over the long haul? Something that can be made up with Power Attack?

2 - I was initially leaning toward Druid, but reading through the rules again and the thought of having to track stats for an animal companion, wild shaped stuff, and summons makes my eyes glaze over. Is that just going to be inevitable with the Druid? I don't need a dirt simple class, but I'd rather managing my character not feel like doing my taxes.

3 - What can I expect performance-wise from this character? I know Druid's usually pretty safe, but this concept isn't exactly the typical path toward CoDzilla. This group is full of moderate optimizers who know the system much better than I do. Is one of the classes going to be noticeably better than the other?

4 - Any other misc. advice? Other classes that might suit the concept better? I know the DM is limiting sources, but there will be other books besides the PHB and APG (those are just the two that I have access to until the first session).
 
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Ramaster

Adventurer
1 - Yes, but there are a couple of things to consider. If you use a two-handed weapon (which you should, if you want to deal "competitive" damage), then the Elven Curve Blade is quite good at that. 1d10, 18x2, finessable. Try to go for at least a DEX score of 18 and a STR score of 14. Power attack will take care of the DMG output later on.

2 - Well... you don't have to take an animal companion with your druid necessarily, you can switch it for a domain, cleric style, and there are a ton of good options (like travel), but you do get stuck with wildshape. Bard is an ok class, some of the archetypes a sweet, like Archaeologist and Dervish Dancer.

3 - Two-handed combat is one of the best styles available, even if you are basing it on DEX mainly. You need only one or two feats to make it work (Power attack and Furious focus, plus Weapon Finesse in your case) and it nets a ton of reliable damage. Full casters will outpace you, as usual, but martial types will not be that far off and with some choice buffs you can be on par with them. Bard has a lot of useful class features and skills.

4 - The Magus class (Ultimate Magic) is a strong gish, if built properly. If it interests you, I suggest reading a guide for it, since a poorly built one will be severely underpowered. Another option is starting off as a fighter (the Loremaster archetype is quite good, check it out), then multiclassing to Wizard and finally taking Eldritch Knight levels. Starting and final PC level on the campaign will be important in deciding if this is viable, since it will take off later (your earliest possible start is after you get 5 Wizard levels and 1 Fighter level).

Stat allocation depends heavily on class choice and point-but/Stat rolls, but the base for a two-handed DEX build is STR 14, DEX 18 IMO. Race choice is tied to this too.

Hope this helps!
 

Mr.E_Danger

First Post
Weapon finesse is a great way to get the high attack modifier to hit, but does nothing for damage.

As far as your question of Druid over Bard, i have played both classes and both are fun and help out your party.

The druid is definitely more paper heavy, meaning that you'll need a lot of stats. This in of itself is not really that big of a problem, as once you have it written down, it's there for you to use. it will just take a bit of prep work. Druids are an incredibly versatile class. While wild shaped, they can be front line fighters, yet still have the casting ability of a full caster. If you throw in an animal companion, then you have an animal that levels as you do and can be built to be quite a bruiser as well. There is rarely ever a time that you will feel "useless" while playing. The class just offers so much to do, plus who doesn't want to wild shape into a Dire Tiger?

The Bard on the other hand is not a full caster and they aren't really front line fighters either. What they lack in both of those, they make up for in buffing allies. Inspire courage is quite a good class ability. The bonus that you can give your allies will help them hit, do more damage, and just make the whole experience more team oriented. High dex certainly helps with the Bard class, plus you don't need to be melee. If your bardic performance is singing or speaking (oratory) then you can weild a bow and still inspre courage as needed. Bards have partial casting, but they are spontanious so you can pick some great spells and always have them available.
 


alien270

First Post
Thanks guys, this has been really helpful! I'm leaning more towards Bard at this point, though I'll take a look at the Magus after work maybe.

I was thinking the Arcane Duelist build from the APG looked pretty spot-on for my concept. How does this compare with other builds? I looked at the Dervish Dancer and it seemed like it would be several levels before it really took off; I'm not sure how long this campaign will last, and I'm generally not a fan of "you get less now, but you'll be great in 5 levels!" builds.
 

Tuft

First Post
Wespon Finesse helps with to hit, but not with damage. This makes it very suitable for those combat maneuvers that can be done with finesse-able weapons.

I've used this for the following Pathfinder bard concept (currently at lvl 7):

1) I use Versatile Performance with Performe Dance to get a really good Acrobatics, so that I can tumble into flanking position with impunity, preferably flanking against the party's barbarian.

2) I trip the flanked opponent. With a finesse Weapon, some feats invested in tripping, flank bonus, Inspire Courage running, Heroism, and finally Haste or Allegro, it usually isn't a problem.

3) If I stepped into position, rather than tumbled, so much the better. Since Trip and Disarm now are attack actions in Pathfinder, rather than 1/turn actions, I can use secondary attacks, such as Haste attacks or Iterative attacks, to:
A) retry if my first trip failed
B) disarm the now prone opponent
C) trip another.

4) Now I've provided the raging, power attacking barbarian with:
+2 flank bonus
+4 opponent prone bonus
+2 ( currently) from Inspire Courage
+2 from Heroism
+1 from Haste
for a hefty +9 bonus to hit. Nothing like noticing that said Barbarian hits on 2+ with her secondary iterative attack while power attacking for the satisfacion of a job well done. :D

4) Not to mention that said barbarian gets off an opportunity attack with all those juicy bonuses when (if) the opponent tries to rise from prone.

I often feel much more of assistance with my Pathfinder bard than I ever did with my 4E bard, not to mention that it feels exciting to tumble into the enemies' midst to provide these bonuses... Since I am actually more interested in the Interaction an Exploration parts of he game, it does not bother me so much that it is not I who do the damage personally.



That aside, if you want to do damage with a finesse weapon, I suggest looking into the Agile magic weapon property.
 

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