Advice requested for a FRCS game (my players please stay out!)

[janta]

(If you're part of my gaming group, please don't read this thread! It'll wreck the surprise!)



(I hope they're gone!)



OK, I'll assume they're not reading this. Here's the situation: I've recently taken over DMing duties for a long-running Forgotten Realms campaign. It's been a while since I ran the show, though I've been playing in this group for a couple years now.

Towards the end of the last session, the PCs were embroiled in trying to figure out a plan concerning a kidnapping. Some girls had been kidnapped from their village, and the PCs had tracked the kidnappers to a city. The PCs received a note with directions to turn over a map, in exchange for which the girls would be released. There was much debate over what to do, but ultimately (and, to be honest, surprisingly) they decided to follow the directions. Since they did so, the fight I was expecting didn't occur.

What *did* occur was this: the directions for the swap were to go to the temple of Waukeen (mercantile god) and exchange a code phrase with the cleric on duty. The cleric would respond with another phrase, the map would be handed over, and the girls would be returned outside the temple. After all that went down as requested by the villains, the PCs, led by a paladin (played by the previous DM), stormed the temple, captured the cleric, threatened him with violence, and demanded to see his superior. When they got to the superior, they grabbed him, and threatened him with torture (i.e., they were on the verge of breaking his fingers) unless he divulged the names of the clients who'd arranged all this.

The main participants in this fairly horrible questioning were the paladin and a LN fighter. They continued to terrorize the cleric, and ultimately he refused to tell them anything. A They never once bothered to ask politely; they immediately concluded the clerics were in collusion with the kidnappers, and kept shouting about how they (the PCs) were agents of the Lord's Alliance (which they are) and could do whatever the hell they wanted (this isn't their town, and they've shown NO ONE any credentials, nor have they bothered to inform the local watch about either the kidnapping or their status as agents). The only reason the party has to suspect the clerics of collusion is because the drop happened in their temple. It was frankly a bit disturbing, not least because it came from the ostensibly LG paladin.

An acolyte from the temple heard the commotion and fled, summoning the city watch. Watch men arrived on scene, and managed to break it up at least somewhat. The party wizard/cleric was able to talk calmly to the head cleric, who agreed to give him the information the PCs sought, once the whole breaking and entering/assault stuff was resolved. They were able to learn where the map was supposed to be placed for pick up (a strongbox rented from the temple by the villains), and put a nasty note with a sepia snake sigil on it there instead.


So, in this situation, what would you do? I don't want to come off as vindictive, but I can't let this kind of behavior go unremarked. Not so much from a "killer DM" standpoint, but from an in-game one. I really don't think the city watch, the clerics, or Waukeen would let this slide. I'd especially like advice concerning possible reactions from Waukeen -- Her cleric was assaulted and threatened, in Her temple, with very little provocation, by someone who is allegedly lawful good.

I think that covers everything, though I'll be happy to explain further if need be. To be honest, what I've described was absolutely not what I expected to happen AT ALL, and I didn't plan for it (which of course is par for the course when you're in the DM seat). Thanks in advance!

--Janta

 

[Henry]

To be honest, what I've described was absolutely not what I expected to happen AT ALL, and I didn't plan for it (which of course is par for the course when you're in the DM seat)

You can say that again; always expect violence to be one of the solutions.

As for the repercussions, the city watch would definitely check out their statements of being Lord's Alliance members (which they would find out, if not from the PCs, from the clerics they threatened). If unsubstantiated, then I would expect them to seek them for questioning, trial for possible city laws violations, and arrest and jail time if needed.

What city was this in? If Westgate or Zhentil Keep or someplace similar, then they're in a LOT of trouble...

As for the Paladin's part: Interrogation is not necessarily evil, but torture in the form of broken body parts is, even if the life of an innocent is at risk. It's showing the willingness to use any tactics to achieve your goals, and showing a willing disregard for the life of others. They didn't try to verify if the priests were even evil, and assumed collusion from the high priest. (Now, I have to give them this -- collusion of the acolyte who takes the message is a GIVEN, and if they had reason to feel the girls' lives threatened, then while their mesures were extreme, from the Lawful Neutral's standpoint it was understandable.)

Towards the end of the last session, the PCs were embroiled in trying to figure out a plan concerning a kidnapping. Some girls had been kidnapped from their village, and the PCs had tracked the kidnappers to a city. The PCs received a note with directions to turn over a map, in exchange for which the girls would be released. There was much debate over what to do, but ultimately (and, to be honest, surprisingly) they decided to follow the directions. Since they did so, the fight I was expecting didn't occur.

What *did* occur was this: the directions for the swap were to go to the temple of Waukeen (mercantile god) and exchange a code phrase with the cleric on duty. The cleric would respond with another phrase, the map would be handed over, and the girls would be returned outside the temple. After all that went down as requested by the villains, the PCs, led by a paladin (played by the previous DM), stormed the temple, captured the cleric, threatened him with violence, and demanded to see his superior. When they got to the superior, they grabbed him, and threatened him with torture (i.e., they were on the verge of breaking his fingers) unless he divulged the names of the clients who'd arranged all this.

The main participants in this fairly horrible questioning were the paladin and a LN fighter. They continued to terrorize the cleric, and ultimately he refused to tell them anything. A They never once bothered to ask politely; they immediately concluded the clerics were in collusion with the kidnappers, and kept shouting about how they (the PCs) were agents of the Lord's Alliance (which they are) and could do whatever the hell they wanted (this isn't their town, and they've shown NO ONE any credentials, nor have they bothered to inform the local watch about either the kidnapping or their status as agents). The only reason the party has to suspect the clerics of collusion is because the drop happened in their temple. It was frankly a bit disturbing, not least because it came from the ostensibly LG paladin.

An acolyte from the temple heard the commotion and fled, summoning the city watch. Watch men arrived on scene, and managed to break it up at least somewhat. The party wizard/cleric was able to talk calmly to the head cleric, who agreed to give him the information the PCs sought, once the whole breaking and entering/assault stuff was resolved. They were able to learn where the map was supposed to be placed for pick up (a strongbox rented from the temple by the villains), and put a nasty note with a sepia snake sigil on it there instead.


So, in this situation, what would you do? I don't want to come off as vindictive, but I can't let this kind of behavior go unremarked. Not so much from a "killer DM" standpoint, but from an in-game one. I really don't think the city watch, the clerics, or Waukeen would let this slide. I'd especially like advice concerning possible reactions from Waukeen -- Her cleric was assaulted and threatened, in Her temple, with very little provocation, by someone who is allegedly lawful good.

I think that covers everything, though I'll be happy to explain further if need be. To be honest, what I've described was absolutely not what I expected to happen AT ALL, and I didn't plan for it (which of course is par for the course when you're in the DM seat). Thanks in advance!

--Janta[/QUOTE]

 

[janta]

What city was this in? If Westgate or Zhentil Keep or someplace similar, then they're in a LOT of trouble...

It was in Loudwater, which has no particular significance in our campaign; it just happened to be sort of close to where the PCs were. I am thinking that since according to the FRCS book, Loudwater has dealings with the Zhentarim, they probably aren't really part of the Lords' Alliance; but I said they were members during the game, so members of the Alliance they are. For now, anyway....

The things that have occurred to me so far are: the temple gets burned to the ground by the outraged villains, killing most if not all of the priests inside. I don't know whether or not the head cleric will survive; either way could provide for some interesting drama. Further, this incident could precipitate the withdrawal of Loudwater from the Alliance, unless the PCs manage to defuse the situation they've gotten themselves into.

collusion of the acolyte who takes the message is a GIVEN

I honestly didn't intend for it to be taken that way; it never even occurred to me that it would look that way to the players (yet another failing on my part). He's just a low-level cleric who received instructions that a particular person would show up at a particular time and say a code phrase. The cleric would respond with a different code phrase, and the person would hand over a piece of paper, which the acolyte was then to put into a strong box. He got his instructions from the head cleric, who in turn received them from the person renting the box. They never had any reason whatsoever to suspect their client was evil, or that this was part of an evil scheme. They're just patsies for the villains.

One other thing that occurred to me is this: the paladin in question may not be taking paladin levels any more. I think the character has at least one level of Harper Scout, but I'm not certain. (I need to get more info from the player -- as I said, I just took over the group and I don't have quite all the information I probably should.)

 

[Stormborn]

I don't know much about the FRCS, but I completly see your point about Waukeen's Priest taking this on as a service, no questions asked. Seems a reasonable thing to do for a fantasy god of merchants. Not suprised that the PCs jumped to conclusions, but they tend to do that.

The Paladin should, at the very least, face some kind of inquisition from his order once a report reaches them that he tortured a priest.

The Priesthood, and Waukeen himself, may choose to adress this through formal channels, maybe demanding punishment, serivice, payment, or all three. But they might just as easily decide to hire soem mercenaries to bring the party before a tribunal. Read Order of the Stick? While its done for humor there, the idea of a Paladin, or several, coming to bring the PCs to justice could create an interesting game.

 

[Whisper72]

Hmmmm.. two things...

The clerics of Waukeen WERE in collusion with the bad guys. Even if unwittingly, the whole 'they only did it cus asked' is somewhat convoluted and from a gaming perspective, not very logical, unless you have positioned the Waukeen temples as 'neutral' brokers and bankers in information and goods from the beginning of the game. Clerics have powers of detect lie/ detect evil, especially if a head cleric (high priest?) is involved. That the PC's draw the conclusion that the clerics are wrong is therefore a natural one.

That said, the reaction of the Paladin player is way out of character. I would talk with the player outside of the game, explaining that maybe your portrayal of the clerics was not as you meant, but that you expect a Paladin to act differently. Have the Paladin lose his Paladin status, and need to do a Quest, some task to aid the clerics of Waukeen, as a penance to regain his Paladin status.

To further the plot, explain, out of game or in game, insofar as you have not done so already, that the clerics were duped as well...

The clerics should not be vindictive, as long as the Paladin agrees to perform some task / service for them as part of his Quest...

 

[evildmguy]

Did the characters actually ever do any violence? Or was it all threatened? Was anything damaged or destroyed? If not, there is little crime they actually did. However, the temple of Waukeen (And, yes, they are or can be the bankers of the FR) will probably not have much to do with them in the future. This could be a big hindrence. And, they are N, so they will have no problem turning the party away if they can't afford healing.

If the clerics were harmed, then it would be a crime against clergy. In this case, with no maiming or other serious harm, it would be a fine. Again, the temple won't be happy with them and their reputations will be hurt.

In the end, it depends on what EXACTLY they did and what your groups definition of LG is. Is Jack Bauer (of 24) LG? If so, he has really skirted the line between doing the moral thing and doing the thing that got the job done. Will the Lords' Alliance back their decisions? Or will the LA condone their decisions? Lots of role playing opportunities and penalties there.

Are they showing regret? Have you explained, after the session, your ideas about the cleric's role in it? And after that, how did they have their characters react? I know that after the session when my group talks about things, we each learn some valuable things the other people were thinking. It really helps.

This might have been tough but perhaps you could back out and tell the players information. "Your character doesn't think this acolyte or the priest have anything to do with it." If they buy that and still use torture, or whatever, then the characters probably did cross a line. That's me, though, and how I would have handled it.

A few coppers worth for you. I hope it helps.

Have a good one! Take care!

edg

 

[LostSoul]

I'd say that the temple would fine the PCs. That sounds like a merchant god to me.

You might want to develop the cleric who was threatened into some type of villian. Maybe he gets upset with his religion for just charging fines, loses his faith, gains the Ur-Priest prestige class and decides to smite the PCs. Or whatever you fancy. Maybe he just develops ill-will towards the PCs whenever he can, keeping them from money or healing or work or adequate legal counsel.

 

[Bastoche]

As a long time player in FRCS, how they acted (with the lords alliance as backup) is correct IMO.

In forgotten realms, in waterdeep for example, "cops" has pretty much every rights because it is sorta assumed (and readily verified frequently) that their members are actually "good" via the use of detect evil and zone of truth spells, etc. They effectively ARE the law and act as such. Police brutality is excused by the fact that policemen often, if not always, are rightfull in their assumptions.

That being said, if they indeed commit any "evil" act, it can be a problem. There's not enough details in your post to clearly conclude that the paladin deserves to loose his paladinhood. Anyway the LN fighter acted right on IMO.

 

[Bastoche]

I furthermore think it's unfair you disallow them to justify themselves in this thread. I understand you want to restrain them from spoilers, but you should modify your inital post to remove them rather than confront them with a mandate from ENworld community to "get revenge" on them for their behavior... YMMV

 

[iwatt]

The clerics of Waukeen WERE in collusion with the bad guys. Even if unwittingly, the whole 'they only did it cus asked' is somewhat convoluted and from a gaming perspective, not very logical, unless you have positioned the Waukeen temples as 'neutral' brokers and bankers in information and goods from the beginning of the game.

I agree that it's easy for the PCs to jump to the conclusion that there was collusion. But that in no manner makes it "illogical" for the church of a neutral god of merchants to be neutral brokers and bankers. There is money to be made in this manner, and who else will have the pretige, and reliabilty?