AEG downsizing

[Shayd3000]

Shame

This is a shame. I worked with AEG very briefly in a consulting role on the Militaries books and my experience with them at the time was a very positive one, though I will admit my contact was only with the Spycraft People.

While I love Spycraft 2.0, I was a bit put off by the fact that a whole shelf full of silver books was rendered obsolete. Yes, the new game is wonderful - but in these times of skyrocketing energy costs my dollar just doesn't go as far these days. I do hope though, that the Spycraft 2.0 release didn't hurt them, because they do have a very good product with that one. I think it would have helped immensly if they could have released the conversion PDF simultaneously, though I do understand what a TALL order that is.

I haven't seen any news as to what lines have survived and what lines have gotten the axe. Anyone know?

George

 

[AscentStudios]

It's sad to hear about this while I'm in the middle of reading Spycraft 2.0. It is, IMO, the best RPG released this year. Nothing else comes close.

Hey Mike, can we quote you on that?

BTW - been lookin' over Iron Heroes lately. Sweeeeet stuff - just what I've been lookin' for out of DnD for quite a while...

 

[Warden]

I just starting taking courses in printing this year, and I have to agree with what's been said about all print mediums feeling the pain. Printing has become much more international, leading many nations (including my own country of Canada and India) to offer high quality production at cheaper rates than the US. On top of that, the electronic medium is making an effect, but only through corporations no longer using printers for their documentations and company productions. Many companies hire their own designers to put these things together, publish as a PDF, step into Kinko's with a contract for printing, and take care of it there. If not, they contract smaller design companies for the publication and take it Kinkos with a contract for printing.

Either way, things are in a flux for businesses involved with printing and this is one of the main results.

Best of luck those affected.

 

[JustaPlayer]

And here you're showing how little you know about the publishing business in general and the RPG business in particular. There's plenty of folks like Moregnstern and ColPladoh that'll be happy to give exact details, I'm sure, but a good rule of thumb is this - you announce a product to generate interest, much like movie teasers, then continue work on the product as interest builds.

Given the vagaries of the industry - things like writers having personal emergencies, freelancers flaking out, budgetary constraints, printing problems - very few publishers make street date, but most do get close. Warlords is, what, a 5 page book series, each book being fairly hefty? The 3.5 changes were comprehensive enough, not to mention vetting OGC and OGL material, that i'm not at all surprised it's taking this long. Look at Privateer Press' Iron Kingdoms setting for another example, or Delta Green. Both are considered paragons in their respective genres, and both took a long time to get to press.

That chip on your shoulder? I'd suggest buffing that out. Coming on here and carrying out some personal grudge isn't going to get you very far at all.

Yes you generate interest by announcing a product early, I never disputed that. And yes some deadlines are missed, that the nature of things. But missing a deadline by more than two years is NOT going to generate interest in a product, especially when you don't keep your target audience apprised.

Changing parts of 4 books that were “almost ready for print” should not take an extra 2 years for the mods from 3.0 to 3.5. There just weren’t "that many" changes. Certainly there were more going from L5R to Rokugasn back the L5R again.

I don’t have a personal grudge for any company. I just do not like bad business. I like books I have seen from them. At this point, even if they were to release the books, I don’t think I would have faith that they would support the line with addition material.

I don’t wish the company ill in their endeavors, I’m just noting how if I have lost faith in the company certainly many others could have as well.

 

[Jim Hague]

Yes you generate interest by announcing a product early, I never disputed that. And yes some deadlines are missed, that the nature of things. But missing a deadline by more than two years is NOT going to generate interest in a product, especially when you don't keep your target audience apprised.

Excepting that, AFAIK, a hard release date was never set.

Changing parts of 4 books that were “almost ready for print” should not take an extra 2 years for the mods from 3.0 to 3.5. There just weren’t "that many" changes. Certainly there were more going from L5R to Rokugasn back the L5R again.

You really have no idea what you're talking about here. Do you know how many people are working on Warlord? Or what changes are being made? I'd hazard a guess and say 'no'. Just the editing of WLD took weeks to get through the initial drafts. Producing just the one book took 9 months, plus time in editing and layout. Spycraft, a single book, took several years for folks to work through mechanical changes and an intermediate version. So no, the time taken isn't unreasonable if you've got any insight at all into the industry.

I don’t have a personal grudge for any company. I just do not like bad business. I like books I have seen from them. At this point, even if they were to release the books, I don’t think I would have faith that they would support the line with addition material.

I don’t wish the company ill in their endeavors, I’m just noting how if I have lost faith in the company certainly many others could have as well.

And that's fine. It's your opinion. But please, try to make it an informed one.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Excepting that, AFAIK, a hard release date was never set.



You really have no idea what you're talking about here. Do you know how many people are working on Warlord? Or what changes are being made? I'd hazard a guess and say 'no'. Just the editing of WLD took weeks to get through the initial drafts. Producing just the one book took 9 months, plus time in editing and layout. Spycraft, a single book, took several years for folks to work through mechanical changes and an intermediate version. So no, the time taken isn't unreasonable if you've got any insight at all into the industry.



And that's fine. It's your opinion. But please, try to make it an informed one.

When talking about the Warlord game, even if no "hard release" date was set, at many conventions and other apperances, they gave dates. It's late. It's real late.

And in terms of manpower? That's a company decesion. If they didn't have the manpower to put into the game for the changes, it doesn't excuse the fact that it's late. Real late. Spycraft is an OGL book. Warlords, AFAIK, is a d20 book and was delayed, supposedly, to take into account the changes in 3.5. Monsters would've been a lot but campaign setting material? Maps?

Thank god they rushed to get out that poorly edited, beautfifully laid out L5R 3rd ed though!

 

[JustaPlayer]

Excepting that, AFAIK, a hard release date was never set.



You really have no idea what you're talking about here. Do you know how many people are working on Warlord? Or what changes are being made? I'd hazard a guess and say 'no'. Just the editing of WLD took weeks to get through the initial drafts. Producing just the one book took 9 months, plus time in editing and layout. Spycraft, a single book, took several years for folks to work through mechanical changes and an intermediate version. So no, the time taken isn't unreasonable if you've got any insight at all into the industry.

There was in fact a date set. The publisher has to give a date to distributers before they can put it in catalogs. They also have to give date to online stores such as Amazon. Heck I've had the books in my "Items not yet shipped" queue for well over 18 months, and I didn't even attempt to purchase it until after the announced release date.

Spycraft 2.0 is by far a larger book than any of the Warlord books. But let's take a look at it. How long before it was announced was it started on? Did it take more than 3 months for the lay out and editing? I know they didn't start on that until after 3.5, so it has certainly taken a lot less time to do the layouts.

How many pages Is Worlds Largest Dungeon? This wasn't announced until about a year after Warlord. How long has that book been on the shelves?

Maybe they should put a little focus into products already overdue before they start on new mega projects.

It's not just the market for RPGs causing the layoffs. The strong will survive. Have you heard problems at Green Ronin? Heck, Mongoose is expanding, hiring more people. New companies are starting up still.

 

[Jim Hague]

There was in fact a date set. The publisher has to give a date to distributers before they can put it in catalogs. They also have to give date to online stores such as Amazon. Heck I've had the books in my "Items not yet shipped" queue for well over 18 months, and I didn't even attempt to purchase it until after the announced release date.

See, I haven't been following the Warlord development. Thanks for the correction.

Spycraft 2.0 is by far a larger book than any of the Warlord books. But let's take a look at it. How long before it was announced was it started on? Did it take more than 3 months for the lay out and editing? I know they didn't start on that until after 3.5, so it has certainly taken a lot less time to do the layouts.

Not being an apologist, but the Warlords books, IIRC, are meant to be a set. Parallel development pretty much means that you're, in effect, writing a very large single book. They're effectively producing 5 books about the size of SC 2.0, which was the end result of a very talented and active team (which also harvested ideas from the forums) continuously developing the product over, what, 2 or 3 years?

How many pages Is Worlds Largest Dungeon? This wasn't announced until about a year after Warlord. How long has that book been on the shelves?

WLD clocks in at about a million words, roughly 800+ pages. I don't have my copy handy at work, so I can't give an exact count.

Maybe they should put a little focus into products already overdue before they start on new mega projects.

It's not just the market for RPGs causing the layoffs. The strong will survive. Have you heard problems at Green Ronin? Heck, Mongoose is expanding, hiring more people. New companies are starting up still.

I'm familiar with GR's problems, and damn Osseum to Hell itself for them. Mongoose is currently the King of Licensed Properties, and has a talented staff to boot. And I don't disagree with you on this point - I think a company needs focus, and AEG seems like they've lost that to an extent. I'll even go so far as to say that I don't think Warlords is a good idea for a product, given the market downturn. Does that make AEG a bad company that hates its fans? Not at all.

Warlords might be fantastic when it comes out, it might be utter crap. My point is that given the size of the project, the time involved isn't unusual. That AEG marketed the product early and gave a release date seems to be a case of unfortunate timing.

 

[JustaPlayer]

Not being an apologist, but the Warlords books, IIRC, are meant to be a set. Parallel development pretty much means that you're, in effect, writing a very large single book. They're effectively producing 5 books about the size of SC 2.0, which was the end result of a very talented and active team (which also harvested ideas from the forums) continuously developing the product over, what, 2 or 3 years?



WLD clocks in at about a million words, roughly 800+ pages. I don't have my copy handy at work, so I can't give an exact count.



I'm familiar with GR's problems, and damn Osseum to Hell itself for them. Mongoose is currently the King of Licensed Properties, and has a talented staff to boot. And I don't disagree with you on this point - I think a company needs focus, and AEG seems like they've lost that to an extent. I'll even go so far as to say that I don't think Warlords is a good idea for a product, given the market downturn. Does that make AEG a bad company that hates its fans? Not at all.

Warlords might be fantastic when it comes out, it might be utter crap. My point is that given the size of the project, the time involved isn't unusual. That AEG marketed the product early and gave a release date seems to be a case of unfortunate timing.

Warlord is 4 books clocking in at 1250 pages if you can still go by the site. That makes it a little smaller the size of Spycraft and WLD combined. I was just noting that because those projects were not announced until Warlord had already missed it's release date.

I'm not saying that they hate hate fans. I think they made some bad descisions with their fantasy lines that have driven people away. And you have to admit that the whole L5R thing looks like they were chasing money in d20 and when they weren't getting it they decided to switch back.

You may be right in that releasing Warlords might not be great at this time. Do they just scrap 3 years of paying someone to write it and get no return then? If so, then tell the people who have been waiting. I still plan to get the books when/if they come out. I just won't be counting on support afterwards.

It's sad really that I think the things I do in regards to the way the company is run because I have never found a lacking in the quality of their front tier releases.

 

[Rasyr]

Interesting update

It seems that the announcement of downsizing is now gone from the AEG website, AND the forums are back up as well (I never personally checked to see if they were gone - so no idea here other than from comments some folks made). There is no sign of that announcement, nor anything even suggesting it might have been there..