Affect Mind / How far do you go ?

[lightful]

We just started plying Star wars last month (although we’ve been playing D&D for … decades !) and I’m seeing a slew of unclear and just plain bad rules. There’s so many of them I don’t even want to get into it. At the moment there is just one pressing question: What is the duration of Affect Mind ? And what are it’s limitations (if any) for that matter ?

If the movies are a benchmark and you look at Obi-Wan using it in the drug pusher, telling him to: “Go home and rethink your life.”, then it seems as if it can be used to achieve almost any effect. And if you add the ruling in the book which states that the being affect considers its actions as perfectly reasonable afterwards then telling someone to : “Search for the truth in your heart”, could lead the target to join a monastic order…or something similiarly far-reaching.

What if you use it to convince a Jedi that all lightsabers are tools of the Dark Side ? Does he dismantle his own and go on a crusade to rid the Universe of them (in keeping with the Jedi mores of course) until…one of his fellow Jedi brainwashes him back ?

How far is too far, and what makes a certain thing “too far” ?

Thanks

 

[Vexed]

I would say there isn't necessarily a "too far" regarding what can be asked of the person. Affect mind is very powerful. In the New Jedi Order books, Luke feels very strongly agaisnt using Affect mind as it takes away a persons free will. Regarding your question though, it all depends on what is asked of the targert. In Episode two Ben Kenobi used it on the guy selling the death sticks, and he told him to go home and think about his life. Not "do not sell death sticks anymore" so the guy prob went home, honestly thought about it, and then made his own decesion. Im sure Sith/dark force users would use it to control and even kill people "go jump off that bridge" and if the target failed, buh bye... As a dm i would just put an emphasis on Jedi using this ability on others and being responsible for the consequences of the actions of someone they target with affect mind. As far as something outlandish like "go find your smile" or some vague introspective quest, etc. I would rule depending on the NPC personality this could cuase someone to join an order as you said, OR... it could be as simple as the NPC evaluating his current position/sitaution and doing what he feels is right for him/her. He could basically go think things over for an hour and decide what he was doing is exactly being true to himself. Depends on the circumstances/NPC.

 

[JollieRoger]

Affect mind has 1 clear set limitation which is the suggestion can not be an obvious threat to the targets life.

As, for limitations in my campaigns, I limit them in some of the following ways:

The suggestion has to be for something immediate (these are not the droids you are looking for)

The suggestion does not cause forced life changes. Free will is still a part of the ultimate decision only the person can make.(go home and rethink your life) In this example it is immediate and does not force a change on the person. They still have to make the final and ultimate decision and how long they decide to dwell on it is the targets choice (good roleplaying interactions).

The suggestion can not knowingly threaten the persons life or health.

The suggestion is for short term change (I need to speak with your master now). I don't want to see in a weeks time you will do this (this is mind control not suggestion).

I think that a lot of the interactions between Anakin and the Palpatine Ep 3 was Affect mind. Palpatine gave lots of suggestions that confused Anakin, played to his desires (Padme) and made him doubt himself and what he believed. But Anakin made the ultimate decisions on what he did and why he did them.

Hopefully this helps.

 

[Vexed]

That is true regarding using affect mind to have someone do something that is an obvious threat. So with a careful wording it could still be used to that end if you were playing a dark side charter. I did not read anything about a time limit or "wearing off effect" although this is from memory, as i don't have the book on me although i would rule that it would tend to be sooner than later...

Here is something you may find useful, a quote on affect mind from a jedi counseling...

Q: If a character fails the saving throw of Affect Mind and is affected, will he have memories of that? Can he be angry over having been subjected to the power? Would it color how he deals with Jedi afterward?

A: The target of Affect Mind will certainly have memories of doing or saying whatever the Jedi told him to do or say, but, according to the text of Affect Mind: "The target won't realize later that what he did was unreasonable."

Now, that being said, the character might catch on that he wasn't given a conscious choice in the matter, and that he was the victim of a Jedi mind trick. Can the character be angry about it? Certainly. Would the character be less trusting of the Jedi afterward? That's a fair response.

 

[Samloyal23]

I would say any suggestion made has to be something that can be accomplished within a reasonable time frame, say 1 hour per level of the jedi. "Go home and rethink your life" may only take a matter of a 30 minutes or so, if the berk lives around the corner and isn't very good at introspection, so a low level jedi using the trick would only keep the skell of the street for a little while. But Kenobi was a jedi knight, presumably fairly high level, so I think he had enough power to make a simple suggestion like this keep that berk occupied for at least half a day...