Age of Empires D&D style (Or d20 Sim city)

[godawful]

Ok, my players have killed the Big BAd Evil Guys, saved the world thus far, are around lvl 9-11, so now my new idea: The kingdom who recognized their accomplishments has granted them a small keep and some land in an area "where we have had little success of maintaing our presence" i.e. some higher level baddies that keep tearing up patrols or forts. So here's the deal for the pc's... they can get this land and some startup repair/maintenance money if they can START AND MAINTAIN AN INDEPENDENT TOWN! and... of course keep all the baddies at bay.
Of course, i have begun preparing basic things that I know will need to be done (all from my love for real time kingdom building video games) like investment required to find ores for mining... farmers that will slowly move into the area, some old NPC buddies who will come to help, etc.
BUT is there any resource material for building every kind of structure needed for a functional town? Stronghold builder's Guidebook only answers a few questions. How about average output for 5 acres of farmland? how many families will it support? What is a good average tax rate? what is one that will make the citizens revolt? how much gold per month will an inn, bakery, mill, general store, shipwright, stable, farmer, etc. make? how much will it cost to build each type of structure? how much wood can a team of 20 lumberjacks cut in a day? how much wood is needed to build them? etc. etc. ARRRG.
Yes, it is micromanagement. Yes it will be crazy. But i like doing totally different stuff in this campaign. So... any knowledge of such things, links, advice, hints, comments is totally welcome and appreciated, even if it only relates to maybe one small aspect of anything i have brought up (or didn't bring up). Thanks in advance.
P.S. I love this board. I get all kinds of great input/ideas from it, so I know you are the guys to ask.

 

[jgbrowning]

Check out this free PDF. http://www.enworld.org/shop/index.php?do=product&productid=117

It's an excerpt from the larger A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe which I had a hand in. MMS:WE would probably answer the majority of your questions; or at least get you close enough to where you'd feel more comfortable winging it a little bit.

joe b.

 

[godawful]

Check out this free PDF. http://www.enworld.org/shop/index.php?do=product&productid=117

It's an excerpt from the larger A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe which I had a hand in. MMS:WE would probably answer the majority of your questions; or at least get you close enough to where you'd feel more comfortable winging it a little bit.

joe b.

thanks. this sure has some interesting stuff in it. very helpful to figure out at what stage of development certain things make sense, like libraries etc. based on population and types of inhabitants. i didn't see anything stating actual values of buildings however, and if the pc's have a set budget to begin with, in order for them to decide what to build first, that kind of info would help me from totally having to make things up. also the thing about how much food an acre of farmland can produce would be helpful to know first (based on abilities of medieval style farming.) i'm still searching around, but haven't quite come up with what i'm looking for, but thanks this link is still really neat.

 

[godawful]

Basic farming/food production info for d20 sim city

well after a bit of research, i found some stuff out, and if it helps anyone, here it is (simpified and rounded in most cases for simplicity)
5 acre farm can produce 60 bushels of food per year or, 5 bushels/month 3 required by family with 2 left over to sell or keep for seed. 1 bushel of seed is required to produce 4 bushels of food.
1 man can farm 5 acres in this way.
>>>>using pound food/day requirements<<<<
small fishing boat can produce 10-20 pounds of fish in one day (using nets)
1 bushel of food equals 70 pounds
active person needs 5 pounds of food per day/wealthy 7 per day/poor 3 per day
cottage 480sp
hovel 120sp
well 18sp per fathom
row house 1200sp
guild hall 32,600sp
craftsman's house with tools 2800sp
merchant house with supplies 2600sp
simple church 1250sp
fancy church 27,000sp
cathedral 500,000sp
fancy house with courtyard 222,000sp
i got some of this from a site that claims to show more accurately represented building and goods/services prices than the average RPG which it claims "are rarely informed by reality" -agyris.net

 

[Thunderfoot]

<SNIP>
1 bushel of food equals 70 pounds
<SNIP>

You might want to re-check this one!!! I gre up as a farmer and if we had secured 70 pounds of raw weight per bushel I wouldn't have left the homestead. A bushel is a dry volume measure, not a weight measure. It is to the dry measure what a gallon is to a liquid measuer (but the volumes are totally different probably 4 - 6 gallons of wet to 1 level bushel dry and maybe 8 heaping. That said a gallon has 3.3 (approx) pounds of weight wet - transferred - 3.3 x 8 (using benefit of the doubt) is 26.4 pounds (less than half of your suggested measurements).

Just wondering where did you get your pound per bushel rating?

 

[Tonguez]

You might want to re-check this one!!! I gre up as a farmer and if we had secured 70 pounds of raw weight per bushel I wouldn't have left the homestead. A bushel is a dry volume measure, not a weight measure. It is to the dry measure what a gallon is to a liquid measuer (but the volumes are totally different probably 4 - 6 gallons of wet to 1 level bushel dry and maybe 8 heaping. That said a gallon has 3.3 (approx) pounds of weight wet - transferred - 3.3 x 8 (using benefit of the doubt) is 26.4 pounds (less than half of your suggested measurements).

Just wondering where did you get your pound per bushel rating?

The Bushel is about 1.25 cubic feet in volume and because different grains have different density there is no standardized weight measure.
As such you will find that there are 60 pounds in a bushel of wheat, 56 pounds in a bushel of corn, 48 pounds in a bushel of barley, 32 pounds in a bushel of oats and only 14 in a Bushel of Grass.

 

[Liath Anam]

I suggest you take another look at MMS:WE as it has almost all of what you are looking for. The PDF linked above is just a sample. There is a section in the purchased version that contains a construction system and includes most any building you would be interested in. The section "On Those Who Toil" and on generating Manors has a lot of information I think you would find useful.

I would also reccomend you check out this thread:Comparison: Strongholds & Dynasties - Empire - Magical Medieval Society - Birthright

 

[JimAde]

You might want to re-check this one!!! I gre up as a farmer and if we had secured 70 pounds of raw weight per bushel I wouldn't have left the homestead. A bushel is a dry volume measure, not a weight measure. It is to the dry measure what a gallon is to a liquid measuer (but the volumes are totally different probably 4 - 6 gallons of wet to 1 level bushel dry and maybe 8 heaping. That said a gallon has 3.3 (approx) pounds of weight wet - transferred - 3.3 x 8 (using benefit of the doubt) is 26.4 pounds (less than half of your suggested measurements).

Just wondering where did you get your pound per bushel rating?

All I know is that a bushel of potatoes weighs in the neighborhood of 60-70 pounds.

-Jim (worked on a farm in his youth) Ade

PS: Seriously, of course, you're right. Bushels of different things weigh different amounts, and potatoes stack above the rim a lot better than wheat.

 

[godawful]

You might want to re-check this one!!! I gre up as a farmer and if we had secured 70 pounds of raw weight per bushel I wouldn't have left the homestead. A bushel is a dry volume measure, not a weight measure. It is to the dry measure what a gallon is to a liquid measuer (but the volumes are totally different probably 4 - 6 gallons of wet to 1 level bushel dry and maybe 8 heaping. That said a gallon has 3.3 (approx) pounds of weight wet - transferred - 3.3 x 8 (using benefit of the doubt) is 26.4 pounds (less than half of your suggested measurements).

Just wondering where did you get your pound per bushel rating?

i got this info off google, do a search for something like 'medieval farm production'
the weight per bushel would be wet weight, or only partially dry. the bushel amount was backed up off of at least 3 different websites. plus i also took into account livestock production (poultry, eggs, pork, etc) in order to figure what an average farm can produce. so, while a farmer is producing, it's not just grain or vegetables, it's also a bit of meat etc. so while dry grain and vegetables may weigh 30 to 60 pounds, i'm allowing for the meat production also. like i said, i'm rounding off and this is totally experimental, but i think it's a pretty decent average for what i'm trying to do, but feel free to bust out any knowledge you have.

 

[godawful]

I suggest you take another look at MMS:WE as it has almost all of what you are looking for. The PDF linked above is just a sample. There is a section in the purchased version that contains a construction system and includes most any building you would be interested in. The section "On Those Who Toil" and on generating Manors has a lot of information I think you would find useful.

I would also reccomend you check out this thread:Comparison: Strongholds & Dynasties - Empire - Magical Medieval Society - Birthright

thanks
that sample section i got was really interesting, but i have a minor problem buying any source material off the web... i live in (very) rural arkansas and am on dial up with about 2k download speed max. more like 1.5k average. so that sample i got which was about 5 megs off your site was about 4 hours. (i just went to bed and checked it in the morning) so that kinda puts me in a snag for big downloads as you can guess. but thanks anyway and it does seem to be a very thorough book from what i can tell.