Ahsoka trailer

[Zardnaar]

@Ruin Explorer: I’ve lived in NZ for 20 years now. I’m well acquainted with Temuera Morrison.

Google “unwhitewash the Bad Batch”. It’s an actual thing.

One thing I’d forgotten about, though, is that Onega’s status as a “pure” Fett clone is established in the show. Tech analyzes her DNA in season 1.


I’ve even seen the rather dreadful sequel.

You weren't here for 90's Shortland Street. It was really bad early on.

 

[pukunui]

Think the lightsaber was red. Close up it had the inquisition circle hilt.

Unless there’s something wrong with the FX or lighting, they’re orange, not red. Maybe a sort of blood orange. Definitely not the same crimson as all the Sith sabers, though.

 

[Zardnaar]

Unless there’s something wrong with the FX or lighting, they’re orange, not red. Maybe a sort of blood orange. Definitely not the same crimson as all the Sith sabers, though.

That saber in particular looked red close up and it has inquisitor hilt.

Around ten minute mark.

 

[pukunui]

Still looks orange to me. The internet is all abuzz with the new orange lightsabers! Wookieepedia is calling them “orange-red”.

Perhaps these two are Thrawn’s attempt at having his own Inquisitorius.

 

[Thourne]

I don't get how "unmodified but enhanced" works,

They are referring to the fact that she wasn't modified for accelerated growth.
Poorly explained, but it is what they mean.

 

[pukunui]

Looking at the general timeline, if he is, he will only be about 8-10 years old.

He was born in 0 BBY, and Mando season 1 was set in 9 BBY. It seems like Mando season 3 is set in 11 BBY. So yeah, Jacen will be around 9–11, depending on when exactly Ahsoka is set.

Apparently there’s going to be a new Lego set of the Ghost that includes a Jacen Syndulla figure, so there’s a good chance he’ll at least get a cameo in the show. (If he’s Force sensitive like his dad, he could end up being one of the first graduates of Luke’s academy.)

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Google “unwhitewash the Bad Batch”. It’s an actual thing.

This? Unwhitewash The Bad Batch

Be a lot more impressed with that if Maori New Zealander wrote it, not a Black American. Or at least a Maori American.

The whole "well I listened to a whole bunch of people (almost none of them Maori), I'm just speaking for all of them with zero quotes, sourcing, or direct input, and dismissing the ones who disagreed with me*" disclaimer is some incredible and stereotypical American privilege shenanigans. Unfortunately most Americans, absolutely including minorities are completely incapable of recognising the extremely problematic nature of them "assuming direct control" over people from other parts of the world's issues (this doesn't just apply on the left, note - the right also does it).

It also has the typical flaw of upper-middle-class/academic-minded American leftists under about 30, which is that they have absolutely no clue about presenting persuasive arguments, and think bizarre and tenuous claims are worth equal or more space and prominence to solid and obviously problematic issues. This is extremely evident in his attempts to break down problematic issues with the specific clones.

There's an amazing "shooting yourself in the foot" moment, for example, with Crosshair - "Crosshair is the sniper in the Bad Batch. He has light skin, a very narrow, long face and nose, a narrow jaw, and a small mouth. He's shaped like a sniper rifle. He looks nothing like the Māori man he's based on."

This may be one of the most /facepalm criticisms I've seen outside of Twitter. Way to destroy your own entire argument whilst you're introducing it! Astonishing total lack of self-awareness and a completely naive failure to understand how cartoons work.

Unfortunately the majority of criticisms he makes are:

A) Nothing to do with white-washing, particularly of Maoris and Pacific Islanders (unsurprising, frankly, given he's an American who isn't from that ethnicity). He kind of does some white-washing of his own by choosing to focus on other social-justice issues instead.

B) Representations of criticisms others have allegedly have made with no quotes or sourcing - some contradictory.

C) Incredibly dubious reaches or very tenuous stuff. Like about 80% of the stuff on Tech, Crosshair, and Echo. Particularly astonishing where he makes wild claims about genetics and cloning to refute some not-really-specified "fan theories", based on A) a YouTube video on a different subject and B) A rando with NO science qualifications "doing research" (god help us all) about genetics. That's his main sources there.

So we this whole thing is sort of microcosm of what's wrong with American social justice right now. Instead of representing the people actually impacted, or involving them in the process well-meaning but un-self-aware others speak for them (usually white but not in this case), without even getting quotes. And instead of presenting the most powerful and straightforward argument possible, they present an absolute morass of messy and frequently tenuous arguments, which it's clear even people who agree with his goal don't agree on*. Instead of actually learning stuff, or involving someone who is qualified, he just spangles Google and grabs a YouTube video or whatever to present as a "source" for a claim.

You could boil down this mess into a few simple, effective points:

1) Using a white American to voice 5 Maori-based character is pretty messed-up and should probably not have happened and should be rectified. It's hard to argue with that.

2) It's messed-up that Omega has light hair and lighter skin without any apparent explanation, especially as she's supposed to be the epitome of goodness.

3) Likewise, it's a bit weird and stereotype-y that Tech is paler than the rest (FGS ditch the "receding hairline = white" deal though jesus) and has a more British accent to represent intellect.

Ditch all the other arguments. At best they're distractions. Some are actively self-destructive. But now we have an argument that might actually work to make Disney do something, but it won't fix every problem every fan has with it (and nothing could - because some of them are contradictory) - just the actual white-washing ones.

If you didn't mean this presentation of the argument, well, thanks for sending me down a rabbit-hole lol.

* = He does mention a bunch of people agreed with his goal, but thought some of his specific points were idiotic. He then, without quoting them, or sourcing the criticism, just represents their points in the weakest way possible (possibly even as actual strawmen, as he won't quote/source, we'll never know), and tries to argue with them. Some of the time he even manages to kind of lose, which is pretty funny when you're arguing with your own watered-down presentation of someone else's argument.

 

[Zardnaar]

This? Unwhitewash The Bad Batch

Be a lot more impressed with that if Maori New Zealander wrote it, not a Black American. Or at least a Maori American.

The whole "well I listened to a whole bunch of people (almost none of them Maori), I'm just speaking for all of them with zero quotes, sourcing, or direct input, and dismissing the ones who disagreed with me*" disclaimer is some incredible and stereotypical American privilege shenanigans. Unfortunately most Americans, absolutely including minorities are completely incapable of recognising the extremely problematic nature of them "assuming direct control" over people from other parts of the world's issues (this doesn't just apply on the left, note - the right also does it).

It also has the typical flaw of upper-middle-class/academic-minded American leftists under about 30, which is that they have absolutely no clue about presenting persuasive arguments, and think bizarre and tenuous claims are worth equal or more space and prominence to solid and obviously problematic issues. This is extremely evident in his attempts to break down problematic issues with the specific clones.

There's an amazing "shooting yourself in the foot" moment, for example, with Crosshair - "Crosshair is the sniper in the Bad Batch. He has light skin, a very narrow, long face and nose, a narrow jaw, and a small mouth. He's shaped like a sniper rifle. He looks nothing like the Māori man he's based on."

This may be one of the most /facepalm criticisms I've seen outside of Twitter. Way to destroy your own entire argument whilst you're introducing it! Astonishing total lack of self-awareness and a completely naive failure to understand how cartoons work.

Unfortunately the majority of criticisms he makes are:

A) Nothing to do with white-washing, particularly of Maoris and Pacific Islanders (unsurprising, frankly, given he's an American who isn't from that ethnicity). He kind of does some white-washing of his own by choosing to focus on other social-justice issues instead.

B) Representations of criticisms others have allegedly have made with no quotes or sourcing - some contradictory.

C) Incredibly dubious reaches or very tenuous stuff. Like about 80% of the stuff on Tech, Crosshair, and Echo. Particularly astonishing where he makes wild claims about genetics and cloning to refute some not-really-specified "fan theories", based on A) a YouTube video on a different subject and B) A rando with NO science qualifications "doing research" (god help us all) about genetics. That's his main sources there.

So we this whole thing is sort of microcosm of what's wrong with American social justice right now. Instead of representing the people actually impacted, or involving them in the process well-meaning but un-self-aware others speak for them (usually white but not in this case), without even getting quotes. And instead of presenting the most powerful and straightforward argument possible, they present an absolute morass of messy and frequently tenuous arguments, which it's clear even people who agree with his goal don't agree on*. Instead of actually learning stuff, or involving someone who is qualified, he just spangles Google and grabs a YouTube video or whatever to present as a "source" for a claim.

You could boil down this mess into a few simple, effective points:

1) Using a white American to voice 5 Maori-based character is pretty messed-up and should probably not have happened and should be rectified. It's hard to argue with that.

2) It's messed-up that Omega has light hair and lighter skin without any apparent explanation, especially as she's supposed to be the epitome of goodness.

3) Likewise, it's a bit weird and stereotype-y that Tech is paler than the rest (FGS ditch the "receding hairline = white" deal though jesus) and has a more British accent to represent intellect.

Ditch all the other arguments. At best they're distractions. Some are actively self-destructive. But now we have an argument that might actually work to make Disney do something, but it won't fix every problem every fan has with it (and nothing could - because some of them are contradictory) - just the actual white-washing ones.

If you didn't mean this presentation of the argument, well, thanks for sending me down a rabbit-hole lol.

* = He does mention a bunch of people agreed with his goal, but thought some of his specific points were idiotic. He then, without quoting them, or sourcing the criticism, just represents their points in the weakest way possible (possibly even as actual strawmen, as he won't quote/source, we'll never know), and tries to argue with them. Some of the time he even manages to kind of lose, which is pretty funny when you're arguing with your own watered-down presentation of someone else's argument.

Maori here is an ethnicity alot of them sound like anyone else. A fair few look like everyone else.

Also you can get adopted into their culture/tribe. A fair few can pass for white. Temuera has a sight stereotypical Maori accent. It's not particularly thick.

These guys are Maori. Note their skin colour.


One of my players is Maori he could walk down the street in London or New York and pass for white.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Maori here is an ethnicity alot of them sound like anyone else. A fair few look like everyone else.

Also you can get adopted into their culture/tribe. A fair few can pass for white. Temuera has a sight stereotypical Maori accent. It's not particularly thick.

These guys are Maori. Note their skin colour.


One of my players is Maori he could walk down the street in London or New York and pass for white.

None of which addressees the points I picked out - but yes it's problematic-as-hell that this Black American has decided all Maoris are dark-skinned and clearly darker-skinned than any white people when that's never been the case - if he at least supported his case with quotes from Maori people concerned about the issue we'd be going somewhat, but he doesn't. But certainly using a white American actor isn't really kosher, it's not like they couldn't possibly have found a New Zealand Maori voice actor.

A better critique if anything would be the appropriation involved in using a faux-Maori facial tattoo on Hunter to make him look more "tribal" which is problematic, but bizarrely he doesn't go for that.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Still looks orange to me. The internet is all abuzz with the new orange lightsabers! Wookieepedia is calling them “orange-red”.

Perhaps these two are Thrawn’s attempt at having his own Inquisitorius.

They're orange-as-hell. I guess some people aren't familiar with the fact that orange is a mixture of yellow and red so will always "have some red in it" lol.