Air Elemental Whirlwind Form

[SnowDog]

Hi all!

Last night my group ran into a Huge Air Elemental (3.5E). It was doing a great job of beating the party up, performing very well for a CR 7 creature against a party of level 7's and 8's.

As it began to drop in hit points, I decided it might try the Whirlwind form. As I described the process and started to play it out, I stopped and said, "This can't be right." So I turn to you guys.

The description states that the Whirlwind doesn't trigger AoOs when it moves into enemy squares. Any creature whose square it enters must make a save or take damage (and then, if that save failed, another or be picked up).

How many enemies may it impact this way per round? It just says that it can move its fly speed (in this case 100') in this form. So my first instinct was that it could move 100' in this form and freely bust through enemy squares and force them to save or make damage.

But then I realized that if two PCs were standing next to each other, the Whirlwinded Air Elemental could move back and forth between them and force them to save/get hurt ten times each. Or, it could basically run ramshod over a party, hitting everybody once or twice and then moving away. It seemed like an awful lot of damage for a CR 7 creature.

On the other hand, the massive size and reach of the creature (combined with its Combat Reflexes) was one of the things making it so tough in melee. Without that, it's much easier to kill.

So. How do you guys handle this situation?

 

[Hypersmurf]

kreynolds has a big Sage reply on file somewhere... try sorting the Rules Forum by subject and looking for "Whirlwind" or "Air Elemental".

-Hyp.

 

[SnowDog]

Found it

Thanks for the tip, found it here.

So it really is that powerful. After discussing it with my players, it seems like the self-limiting aspect of this power is that eventually you'll fail your save and get picked up -- or you'll be so good that you won't fail either of your saves and you'll just take no damage.

Someone very unlucky could get hit by this attack 10 times in a round, and fail their first save and make their second every time, meaning they would take 20D8 damage (from a huge elemental), for an average of 90. But you'd have to be awfully unlucky to have that happen.

 

[DM2]

Re: Found it

Thanks for the tip, found it here.

So it really is that powerful. After discussing it with my players, it seems like the self-limiting aspect of this power is that eventually you'll fail your save and get picked up -- or you'll be so good that you won't fail either of your saves and you'll just take no damage.

Someone very unlucky could get hit by this attack 10 times in a round, and fail their first save and make their second every time, meaning they would take 20D8 damage (from a huge elemental), for an average of 90. But you'd have to be awfully unlucky to have that happen.

Hmm...the other thread referenced doesn't really address the issue of someone being hit multiple times in a round.

When I've had air elementals attack i whirlwind form, I always had them make a single run through the entire party, hitting each person once.....allowing basically 10 attacks against someone in a single round seems over the top...

 

[SnowDog]

Re: Re: Found it

Hmm...the other thread referenced doesn't really address the issue of someone being hit multiple times in a round.

When I've had air elementals attack i whirlwind form, I always had them make a single run through the entire party, hitting each person once.....allowing basically 10 attacks against someone in a single round seems over the top...

Well, that's what I felt too, but I can't see anything anywhere that would give a reason why the elemental couldn't move into someone's square more than once, or why having been subjected to the attack earlier in the round would make it so you didn't have to resist it again when it came by a second time....

Anybody else have thoughts?

 

[Skaros]

Re: Re: Re: Found it

Well, that's what I felt too, but I can't see anything anywhere that would give a reason why the elemental couldn't move into someone's square more than once, or why having been subjected to the attack earlier in the round would make it so you didn't have to resist it again when it came by a second time....

Anybody else have thoughts?

My intuition is that this use wasn't intended, and that the text should have a sentence added saying that a creature only has to make its saves once per round at most.

Otherwise, they should go the other direction and specify that if the elemental is in the square with someone, it can just sit there for the full round, unmoving, and they have to make 20 sets of saves since they are taking the full round worth of its whirlwind

Heck...the whirlwind can double-move, right? Couldnt it move back and forth between 2 foes, giving them each 20 sets of saves to make?

I think I'll stick with my (apparently) house rule that once you make or fail your saves, you aren't affected by subsequent encounters during the rest of that whirlwinds movement.

 

[SnowDog]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Found it

I think I'll stick with my (apparently) house rule that once you make or fail your saves, you aren't affected by subsequent encounters during the rest of that whirlwinds movement.

Probably a good idea ... it can rip through a party but not beat the living tar out of one person .