ArlenFrostlockes
First Post
And Pauper - when I can make a build that effectively gives me the benefits of a subclass without having to take the subclass, it needs to be looked into
AL VS LFR of 4th and why I'm so disappointed
kalani
First Post
The reason for the rule has NOTHING to do with existing content. The rule was created and implemented for the SEASON 1 player's guide - before we had anything other than the PHB!
The rule itself is future proof in that, should a broken combination come out when you mix content from X years worth of products, it won't have an impact on the AL because characters can only choose content allowed by their story origin, and cannot mix content.
I actually used a similar rule in 3.5, Pathfinder, and 4E at my home tables (Players could use the PHB and two other sourcebooks of their choice). Why did I implement this rule - because once you factor the several-dozen sourcebooks for 3.5, you could quickly find something that was broken when combined (but innoculous by itself).
I for example, created several characters as thought experiments - the least of which was a character who could make up to 27 attacks/round (average 15), most of which at full BAB (this character as a combat reflexes monkey who utilized a chain lash, and whose primary combo consisted of Mage Slayer, Karmic Strike, Elusive Target, Double-Hit, Hold the Line, and numerous other supporting feats). The character would take a -4 penalty on their AC on their turn (in order to set up Karmic Strike), and then each opportunity attack would gain the benefit of double-hit (two attacks as a single opportunity attack, one with each end of her double-weapon).
Karmic Strike would let me make 2 attacks against the enemy for each attack that hit, while Elusive Target would let me redirect attacks to an enemy flanking me. Mage Slayer would allow me to swap to reach mode with my weapon, which would force any spellcaster to provoke an OA on their turn that they wanted to cast a spell (5 foot step would still leave them within reach of mage slayer, while moving 10 feet would provoke for moving).
LFR's kitchen sink approach ran into similar problems (although not as quite extreme as what was possible in the latter 3.5 days). AL's Story Origin mechanic is a proactive attempt to prevent issues relating to rules bloat and unintended rules interactions.
As stated by the admins, if it turns out that this rule was an overly cautious (and unnecessary) rule in hindsight, it will be revisited/revised at that time.
The rule itself is future proof in that, should a broken combination come out when you mix content from X years worth of products, it won't have an impact on the AL because characters can only choose content allowed by their story origin, and cannot mix content.
I actually used a similar rule in 3.5, Pathfinder, and 4E at my home tables (Players could use the PHB and two other sourcebooks of their choice). Why did I implement this rule - because once you factor the several-dozen sourcebooks for 3.5, you could quickly find something that was broken when combined (but innoculous by itself).
I for example, created several characters as thought experiments - the least of which was a character who could make up to 27 attacks/round (average 15), most of which at full BAB (this character as a combat reflexes monkey who utilized a chain lash, and whose primary combo consisted of Mage Slayer, Karmic Strike, Elusive Target, Double-Hit, Hold the Line, and numerous other supporting feats). The character would take a -4 penalty on their AC on their turn (in order to set up Karmic Strike), and then each opportunity attack would gain the benefit of double-hit (two attacks as a single opportunity attack, one with each end of her double-weapon).
Karmic Strike would let me make 2 attacks against the enemy for each attack that hit, while Elusive Target would let me redirect attacks to an enemy flanking me. Mage Slayer would allow me to swap to reach mode with my weapon, which would force any spellcaster to provoke an OA on their turn that they wanted to cast a spell (5 foot step would still leave them within reach of mage slayer, while moving 10 feet would provoke for moving).
LFR's kitchen sink approach ran into similar problems (although not as quite extreme as what was possible in the latter 3.5 days). AL's Story Origin mechanic is a proactive attempt to prevent issues relating to rules bloat and unintended rules interactions.
As stated by the admins, if it turns out that this rule was an overly cautious (and unnecessary) rule in hindsight, it will be revisited/revised at that time.
Here's your answer, Arlen, already given:
Of course, you don't like this answer, which makes me wonder why you don't just play in a home game where it's not an issue.
Welcome to the ignore list, buddy.
--
Pauper
Of course, you don't like this answer, which makes me wonder why you don't just play in a home game where it's not an issue.
Welcome to the ignore list, buddy.
--
Pauper
ArlenFrostlockes
First Post
wow - ignore list for bringing valid criticism to a ruling - very adult and mature - way to foster inclusiveness and genuine care for players in AL that do not adhere to your viewpoints. "Don;t like the rules, then go play homebrew" Perhaps I play AL because I like the organised setting of D&D, or perhaps a homebrew game is not an option for me, or maybe my friends play AL rules. Ignoring a person who has not attacked you personally other than the e=peen comment only proves my point regarding the e-peen. I poked very sound holes in the ruling utilizing logic, existing rules and not taking the deflections provided.
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ArlenFrostlockes
First Post
Thank you Kalani - that has answered my questions and concerns - as long as the AL Leaders are willing to revisit and re evaluate this, I am ok. Still has holes in it but at least it was not a deflection.
ArlenFrostlockes
First Post
BTW - If me not accepting answers that resemble "because I said so" or deflections of sound arguments against your point of view offend you, then please ignore me and have your echo chamber. I treat people with respect and I do listen to what they have to say, but do not expect me to just back off and not argue my point of view. exchange of ideas and viewpoints are crucial to having an open, inclusive, vibrant discourse in order to make this a wonderful social experience.
Anthraxus
Explorer
Not trying to argue with you here, but there are a few differences between the above listed Fighter and EK(one more 1st level spell, bonded weapons, ability to stack spellcasting levels while multiclassing), and I don't think GFB or BB make you overpowered, especially at low levels.
Also, in your Human Paladin example after this, you can't have Hunters Mark(Ranger spell) with BB or GFB(different class list). Just wanted to point that out- I've seen others mixing spell lists in my local games, too.
ArlenFrostlockes
First Post
sure you can - Hunters mark is a paladin spell given by the vengeance oath - BB and GFB are cantrips provided by utilizing the starting bonus feat provided by the Human variant. Casting a bonus action spell allows you cast a cantrip
Anthraxus
Explorer
Oops! You are right on that one. It has thrown me off, because other(non-Vengeance-Paladin) PC's have done it with mixed spell lists before.
ArlenFrostlockes
First Post
And I definitely agree the EK have a lot more than those cantrips to offer, but as a fighter starting at lvl 1 having your weapon damage count as magical is a big deal. every time you take an action you cast the cantrip that asllows a melee attack as part of the spells description. effectively making your damage magical. and they scale at the tier lvls
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