Alchemy > Ritual Caster

[robsenworldaccount]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ex/20080814b


Does anyone agree that Alchemy trumps rituals?

With the PHB having 32 pages explaining combat mechanics, and 112 pages describing powers (w/ 95% being combat related), why would you take ritual caster over Alchemy?

Because I like rituals, and I can tell the feat is only going to be picked up by this wizard as long as we have very little good heroic tier choices.

Take care everyone.

 

[Dalzig]

Rituals can do a lot more than alchemy will ever be able to do; they fulfill different needs. Alchemy (from what we've seen) is meant to make items helpful in battle. Rituals are useless in battle. This means that it's almost useless to directly compare the two. If you want stuff to do in battle, get Alchemy. If you want cool stuff out of battle, get Ritual Caster.

 

[darkadelphia]

It's a matter of how your game is played. If your sessions are largely combat after combat and your DM is a tactical monster, then yes, alchemy will probably be hands down better. If your game has a more out of combat situations and more attachment to game world things, then go with rituals (especially with the new dragon rituals--Battlefield Elocution is just too cool and the ritual that lets you teleport back to your house is a great way to keep your DM from arbitrarily messing with your stronghold you spent 4 hours mapping in full color last sunday ;-))

 

[Seeker_of_Truth]

To me it seems like even for a combat centric game that Brew Potion + Enchant Magic item will be more useful than alchemy, and that's just two rituals. I'm not saying alchemy is bad, but it sure doesn't look as powerful as rituals to me.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Looking at the power level of the alchemy items, their power levels are around about that of an at-will power.

So the only real use is to give you something that you don't otherwise get from your at-wills. I doubt, for instance, that most people will find alchemist's fire any use, and it's certainly not something you want to attack with every round: the attack bonus is not great, and neither is the damage. Many characters will have much better minion clearers as encounter powers (which usually covers how often you need to use them). But, occasionally, it might be worth it for a character to use some.

I think that's pretty much perfect.

 

[LightPhoenix]

I tend to agree with Saeviomagy - while they are neat, they're relatively low powered. Why would I throw Alchemist's Fire every round when I could Thunderwave? That said, I think where the real utility comes in is with smaller groups or groups without certain roles. For example, my group is only three people (me as Wizard, Fighter, Cleric). It would be great to spread around some of the Controller ability with Alchemist's Fire or the Tanglefoot Bag.

 

[robsenworldaccount]

Well, I see your guys (s) point.

Let me restate; I love the new ritual concept.

Let me also say, that feats that directly influence combat more often than not, are taken more often than not.

This is not to say every campaign functions this way, but its basically more pragmatic to take a feat you would see used more often than not.

<3 everyone take care

 

[Ahglock]

Here I thought most of it looked cool but crappy. It is way too much money for one shot items. About the only one I liked was the smokestick.

 

[IceFractal]

Alchemy seems a bit underwhelming so far. Of the items given, the only ones that seem at all cost effective are:
1) Smokesticks, and they're still not that great.
2) Low-level Alchemist's Fire, simply to light buildings and stuff on fire quickly.

With everything else, you're paying a very high cost for something not even necessarily better than an at-will. Now maybe the Adventurer's Vault will have some great alchemical stuff in it, but at the moment rituals are looking like the better bet, even for combat purposes.

 

[Derren]

Alchemy only lets you create some items which you can likely also buy for about the same price.
Ritual Casting on the other hand lets you, in addition of creating magical items, create effects you otherwise couldn't get.

So to me Ritual Casting is way better than Alchemy. The only advantage Alchemy has is that it doesn't require a trained skill.