D&D 5E Allowing Strength for Bows--unbalanced?

[The Grassy Gnoll]

Just looked in my Ad&d PHB and DMG...nope, only differences between composite bows and regular short/long bows were cost, range and possibly rate of fire. May have come in Oriental Adventures or something?

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

It did not exist in 2nd edition.

Correction, 2nd edition did have a rule regarding adding strength damage bonuses.

It can be found under the description of bows in the equipment chapter (page 73 of the 1989 player's handbook, page 96 of the 1995 revised player's handbook or its more recent reprint).

Starting simply with "The greater the pull, the more Strength needed to work the bow. Thus, it is possible for characters to have bows that grant them damage bonuses for high Strength (it is assumed the character has chosen a bow that has a greater pull)." and continues on to detail the exception regarding cost of the bow not being any different, as bows that granted the damage bonuses of exceptional Strength (18/01 and greater) do actually have increased cost.

 

[pdegan2814]

I think it's much more viable to create minimum Str requirements for certain bows than to have the Str mod added to the damage. How about something like: If you try to use a bow without meeting the Str requirement, you're at disadvantage to your shots, and cannot attack targets beyond the "short" range of the bow. On the flip-side, I'd want to see a minimum Dex requirement for some melee weapons. Yes, swinging hard counts, but being coordinated enough to swing *accurately* should matter as well. There should be some sort of penalty in melee for being a clumsy oaf.

What if certain bows, especially ones with a minimum Str requirement, also had an "overdraw" property, similar in a way to the "versatile" property for melee weapons? It could be like a scaled down version of the Sharpshooter feature, letting the wielder take a penalty to hit for extra damage. Maybe even reducing the attack penalty if the wielder's Str score exceeded the minimum by a certain amount.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Correction, 2nd edition did have a rule regarding adding strength damage bonuses.

It can be found under the description of bows in the equipment chapter (page 73 of the 1989 player's handbook, page 96 of the 1995 revised player's handbook or its more recent reprint).

Starting simply with "The greater the pull, the more Strength needed to work the bow. Thus, it is possible for characters to have bows that grant them damage bonuses for high Strength (it is assumed the character has chosen a bow that has a greater pull)." and continues on to detail the exception regarding cost of the bow not being any different, as bows that granted the damage bonuses of exceptional Strength (18/01 and greater) do actually have increased cost.

Yeah, but that bonus wasn't tied to composite bows, which was the subject I addressed in my post. In 2nd edition IIRC composite bows just had a slightly longer range than other bows.

 

[miburo99]

Whoa this thread blew up pretty fast. OP sends apologies for the potential controversy =P

As mentioned above 2nd Edition did in fact have "mighty" bows (minimum strength required which allowed you to add damage bonus). That said, in 2nd edition you couldn't add Dex bonus to damage for bows anyways. That's why I don't care too much about staying true to 1E/2E/3E orthodoxy; WotC made changes in 5E which made Dex better (Dex to both attack rolls and damage), so I don't see too much of a problem doing the same thing to give Strength a leg up.

My inspiration on this was the story in the Odyssey where only Odysseus had the strength to string the bow and shoot it straight through the 12 axe handles. Of course that is partially the bow's draw strength, partially his own strength, and partially his coordination. But this D&D 5E, and we don't want to make a non-simulationist tabletop RPG overly complicated.

Here are a couple of options:

A) Don't change anything.
B) Give bows ability to do Str to attack rolls and damage
C) Do B but with minimum strength required for each bow
D) Give bows ability to do Str to damage only
E) Do D but with minimum strength required for each bow
F) Provide a feat that allows you to use strength for bows.

For simplicity I'd probably settle on B or F.

You could always create a feat instead for it.

Composite Archery
Req. Str 13+
While most rely on precision and accuracy to allow their arrows to fly true, you prefer to use your raw physical prowess to strike with sheer force.
You may use your strength to hit and damage when wielding a shortbow or longbow.
When you hit a target within 30', as a Bonus Action you may cause them to make a Strength Saving Throw (DC 8 + Str Modifier) or be knocked prone. Creatures of a size category larger than yours ignore this effect.

I really like this, the secondary benefit is quite cool. Though the Saving Throw DC seems low, might tweak that (maybe add your proficiency bonus if you are proficient with the weapon). Also I might change the name because it's not really about being a composite bow. Maybe "Physical Archery" or something similar

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

Yeah, but that bonus wasn't tied to composite bows, which was the subject I addressed in my post. In 2nd edition IIRC composite bows just had a slightly longer range than other bows.

It wasn't clear to me that you were talking about there not being a rule that composite bows gave strength bonuses but normal bows didn't, rather than that there just weren't any strength bonuses to bow damage at all.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

It wasn't clear to me that you were talking about there not being a rule that composite bows gave strength bonuses but normal bows didn't, rather than that there just weren't any strength bonuses to bow damage at all.

Sorry for the confusion then. And thanks for calling out the 2nd edition rule--it's definitely relevant to the conversation.

 

[Jediking]

Here are a couple of options:

A) Don't change anything.
B) Give bows ability to do Str to attack rolls and damage
C) Do B but with minimum strength required for each bow
D) Give bows ability to do Str to damage only
E) Do D but with minimum strength required for each bow
F) Provide a feat that allows you to use strength for bows.

There are a lot of good ideas in this thread, a bunch of different ones but they work. I like increasing the damage die, having a min. Str to wield, but keeping DEX as the attack and damage mod. Or maybe I like a feat, cause it seems to fit. Or maybe the idea of special Mammoth-bone Barbarian Archers who fire down from mountain passes and arrows seem to pierce even stone...

 

[MechaPilot]

I think what I would do to incorporate Str into bows would be this:

Bows can be made with special materials to make them hit harder. In exchange, there is a minimum Str score to use them. Instead of adding to the damage of the bow, the Str requirement would change the minimum damage roll. For example, with a Str 12 bow, you can reroll a die result of one; with a Str 14 bow, you can reroll die results of 1 or 2; etc.

 

[dmnqwk]

One thing to remember is that 2nd ed and other previous systems didn't add dex to damage, so comparisons are apples and oranges. Finesse as standard on weapons should also let Street work on some bows, or its a bit one-sided.