Alt rogue: Paths?

[Kerrick]

The rogue is about the only class that didn't receive any major changes. I tweaked trapfinding to make give them a bonus equal to half their level to finding traps (anyone can find a trap of any Search DC), and they get 6 + Int skill points instead of 8 (bards get 8 instead of 6, making them - rightly so - the skill-whores), but I didn't do anything with the abilities they get, since I figure it was good enough.

But recently, I've started to think: why not give rogues paths too? Granted, with all the skills they get, they can cover a lot of archetypes, but giving them a few extra perks would go over well too. I was thinking (off the top of my head):

The Ghost (expert at infiltration, disguise, remaining unseen, burgling, etc. - this path leads well into Assassin);

The Swashbuckler (kind of - it's not like the PrC, but they get some lesser abilities that lead into it);

The Acrobat (obviously, someone who's good at climbing, acrobatics, and avoiding things - a path that leads to the Shadowdancer).

I'm not doing the Performer - I've actually removed Perform from the rogue class list, because that seems more the purview of the bard (who also gets Ride as a class skill). Thug/Enforcer could be a path, but I think it's better modeled by a fighter/rogue with a decent Strength.

What do you guys think? Is having paths that lead into/tie into roguish PrCs a good idea? I mean, I know the goal is to encourage PCs to stay in their class and NOT PrC at the first opportunity, but I think in this case, it fits - the PrCs are logical extensions of the paths, more focused. As with other classes, a rogue can pick and choose from his paths - he can take a couple levels of Acrobat, a level of Swashbuckler, and then become a Shadowdancer with some combat ability, or an especially mobile Duelist.

 

[Sylrae]

Having Rogue paths isnt a good Idea, but keep in mind a few things.

Swashbuckler is a base class, Complete warrior.
and Acrobat sounds cool. There's an acrobat class designed to replace the monk in a city campaign (this its a little more monk like in abilities) It's in City Works, by Fantasy Flight Games (I'm guessing I can't c n' p the text here for you, then everyone could see it. if you want to know what it has, to see if its like what youre trying to do, send me an email. rpmalonATgmailDOTcom). I dont think an acrobat would mesh well into a non-city campaign, so that works alright. It might be useful to you, or it might make that path redundant. who knows.

I would keep the performer, the bard is magic based, and more honest. a rogue performer performs (nonmagically) and robs the people in the audience. Its a different sort of thing.

I like the Idea of the ghost alot. Thats really cool. though I would have the ghost lead into shadowdancer. an acrobat seems kinda too flashy.

 

[Kerrick]

Having Rogue paths isnt a good Idea, but keep in mind a few things.

Yeah, it's a vague idea. I thought it'd be kind of cool - rogues already get a bunch of abilities that can be split out into the paths - but after further thought, you might be right. Not only would I have to compensate them with additional abilities to make up for what gets pulled from the general list to go into paths, but the three roguish PrCs already have most of the abilities (Want to be a ghost? Play an Assassin or SD. Want to dance around with a sword and utter witty repartee? Be a Duelist. Etc.).

I dont think an acrobat would mesh well into a non-city campaign, so that works alright.

An acrobat's abilities are useful anywhere, really, provided the DM gives the player an opportunity to use them. Imagine having to reach a door/button/treasure chest accessible across a narrow beam, or on the other side of a chasm across which the party had to fire/throw a grappling hook. Not to mention acrobats are among the climbers, contortionists, and tumblers in the party - a hallway full of traps that must be dodged, a 30-foot statue with gems for eyes... the list goes on. Obviously, you shouldn't do this ALL the time, but every once in awhile shift the focus to one player to make him/her feel special and necessary.

I would keep the performer, the bard is magic based, and more honest. a rogue performer performs (nonmagically) and robs the people in the audience. Its a different sort of thing.

Eh. I wanted to split the rogue and bard a little. Rogues are more con artists, while bards are true performers. A rogue would use Bluff, or he could just take Perform as a cross-class skill (he just doesn't get the +3 bonus).

I like the Idea of the ghost alot. Thats really cool. though I would have the ghost lead into shadowdancer. an acrobat seems kinda too flashy.

I don't know if you've seen my reworked SD, but it's heavily based around evasion and acrobatics.

 

[Sylrae]

nope. I was thinking the plain DMG SD.
Did you (or were you ever intending to) do the Adept, Commoner, Expert, and Warrior?

 

[StormingMarcus]

Why have you dropped rogue's skill points? They are supposed to be skill-monkeys, they've always been and they currently are.
I really see no need for such a change.

 

[Kerrick]

nope. I was thinking the plain DMG SD.
Did you (or were you ever intending to) do the Adept, Commoner, Expert, and Warrior?

Yeah, I've done them. I apparently forgot to include them in the classes file because they're NPC classes.

Why have you dropped rogue's skill points? They are supposed to be skill-monkeys, they've always been and they currently are.
I really see no need for such a change.

They're not really "supposed" to be skill-monkeys; they just have a huge number of applicable skills. Reducing their skill points makes them choose a little more selectively instead of getting a huge swath of abilities (especially now that all skills are 1 point), which would enable them to do everything. Rogues have strong enough class abilities that losing a few skill points won't hurt them overmuch.

Bards, OTOH, are supposed to be the "jacks of all trades"; the easiest way to simulate that is to give them lots of skills and the points to go with it, so they can do a little of everything. They have pretty weak class abilities, so giving them more skills helps to make up for it and make them more desireable to play.