Alt.Sorceror ?

[Azure Trance]

Indeed it seems that the only thing bothering me would be the limited spells they -EVER- know. Why change the entire class to compensate when DreamChaser / Enchanters have sound ideas (although I agree with DC in that his method probably would make it a bit uber-isk) But I thank him for giving something to start on at least.

 

[Gez]

The problem of the sorcerer is that, as it is made, it sucks; unless the player just want to hurl fireballs and magic missiles all day long.

If your concept of the sorcerer is not an over-specialized battlemage, then the sorcerer is shafted, as he'll knew less spells than a wizard can cast...

Here's my Alt.Sorc:

Skill points: 4 per level.
Skills: add Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Perform, Sense Motive, Use Magic Device.

Special Capacity: Add "Eschew Material" at first level. House Rule: Eschew Material is a general feat (like Augment Summoning), NOT a metamagic feat.*

Spell known: add +1 spell known at each spell level, gained the first time the sorcerer get access to that spell level (i.e., at level 4, instead of knowing 1 2nd-level spell, he know 2 2nd-level spell; at level 20, instead of knowing 5 of them, he knows 6 of them).

Also, sorcerer don't need non-costly focus.

However, sorcerers have a theme. The spell he knows must fit with that theme (approved on a case-by-case basis by the DM).



* Eschew Material as a metamagic feat is a wrong, wrong, wrong idea. The cost of metamagic for wizards (and other preparing spellcasters) is that they don't know if it will be in their best interest to metamagize the spell they prepare. A sonic fireball to bypass a fire giant's energy immunity, or a normal fireball to bypass some trolls' regeneration ? An empowered magic missile, or a fireball ? Etc. But eschew material don't affect the effect of the spell, and don't take up a higher slot. In other words, a wizard (or cleric) who invest in Eschew Material will always prepare his spells with it when possible.

But the cost of metamagic for sorcerer is the extra time. In other words, a wizard has no penalty from systematically using EM, while a sorcerer has one. And it sucks.

 

[DreamChaser]

Gez, I agree with you about EM. General feat all the way.

I disagree with you in your assessment of sorcerer and you solution. Sorcerer as a class is as versatile as wizard. Each sorcerer is limited, however. A sorcerer does not have to choose combat spells it's just that many players will chose them (the sorcerer in my game has chosen a mix). Your solution doesn't change their limit of spells enough to solve what you see as a problem.

I completely agree with the theme idea. All sorcerers in my game are required to have one.

One thing I find interesting about this thread and others like it is that I don't think I've seen an alt. wizard thread. This class is a new one to 3e. People who played magic users in the past were used to being able to do a lot (once they hit 5th level, before that they were walking bait). Now you have wizards who can do darn near anything, provided they prepare in advance or have the slots and time to prepare on the fly.

A sorcerer must be approached with a different concept or it ends up feeling like a fireball slinger or a poor cousin to the wizard. I think the greatest disservice the designers did to the sorcerer was to give them the exact same spell list as a wizard. Most of the threads on this subject that I have followed here have related to adjusting the sorcerer's spell lists to make them less like wizards and more like themselves (the Sorcerous Domains thread, for example).

Because sorcerers can cast more spells a day, taking magic missile at early levels seems like a no brainer: how else are you going to survive combat over and over? Well, just like wizards, you can always count on your friendly neighorhood fighter if you want to take Enlarge and Summon Monster I (which is a cool spell if you house rule it to have a duration of C up to 1 min per level).

The sorcerer, more than any class, takes imagination, preparation, and, especially, a desire to be a sorcerer and not a wizard with all his spells permananently prepared (which is what so many people seem to want them to be).

Just my thoughts.
DC

 

[Gez]

Well, I do play a sorcerer. In fact, we have a campaign where everyone play a sorcerer (except one, who's got a bard...).

We done it for flavor. The blood of the dragon, ancient noble family, ancestral inner power to awaken, all that stuff.

Mine is an aristocrat/sorcerer. As the characters are oriental in flavor (the bard is actually using a single class to represent a multiclassed sorcerer/entairtainer), we are also allowed to pick the known spells from the Wu-Jen list.

The dilemna is at spell selection. Usually, I have several weak spells that fit the theme of the sorcerer (for example, and from OA, at first level, Fiery Eyes, Scales of the Lizard*), and some spells that are actually useful (Magic Missile, Mage Armor). Since we've yet to end a combat without being all in the negative, except for this day's lucky guy who would still be standing with 1 or 2 hp left and trying to succeed at Heal check to stabilize the others, I've a tendancy to stray from the "flavor spells" in order to get the "survival spells". And I find it sad. That's why I would give an additional spell at each level, in order to allow a sorcerer to get these flavor spells without being too much penalized when the flavor spells are weak (and they often are).

(*Utterly junk before errata, still weak after.)



Note that I don't play with my version of the sorcerer, by the way. Although we do have the +2 skill points (and +2 skills of choice, submit to DM's approval) and the eschew materials and focus things.