Altering Classes

[Byronic]

Let's say for instance that you have a player that wants to play a Drow character, his concept is that she's a dancer who does "performance art" with her swords. Originally a particularly bloody performance which used slaves that were deemed to be slow workers. Another part of the "Performance" was the use of using weighted daggers (mechanically they're Javelins, heavy thrown etc)

After looking at the classes "Ranger" seems to work best.

Is there any reason why she couldn't play an altered version of the ranger class? Say switch Strength with Dex (and visa versa) and switch Wis for Cha.

Perhaps change some of the Class Skills around?

How far do you think you should go? Would it be imbalanced?

One side effect of this (if it became common practice) is that races would no longer be considered good at a certain class simply because they have the right +2 to the right attributes.

Would this be a good thing or a bad thing?

 

[Kordeth]

The biggest imbalance I can see would be that the character would be extraordinarily versatile--just about every ranger power can be used as either a ranged attack or a two-melee-weapon attack; allowing this character to use Strength for both melee and ranged attack powers makes her equally capable at range or up close.

PRETEND EDIT: Oh, wait, are you saying let her use Dex for melee and Str for ranged? In that case, I'd be a little worried about giving her Dex for melee attacks and AC (yes, rogues use Dex for their melee attacks, but rangers have slightly better armor and much better weapon potential). It's probably not a huge deal, though.

I am curious, though, why "charismatic dagger-wielding dancer" doesn't fit far better as an artful dodger rogue.

 

[Byronic]

I am curious, though, why "charismatic dagger-wielding dancer" doesn't fit far better as an artful dodger rogue.

Hmm, good question. Actually I just made up that example to illustrate my question.

I've been wondering things really. Like, if you were to make a Warhammer setting, could you adjust the classes to match the "feel" of the Warhammer "classes"?

For example when I look at the Avenger class it reminds me of Elven Wardancers. It's seems even better then the Ranger class for this purpose. Some things are easily changed (like, changing "Armour of Faith" to "Magical Tattoo's"), but what if I decided that in my setting Charisma would work better for them then Wisdom?

That's the tricky part.

 

[Kordeth]

Hmm, good question. Actually I just made up that example to illustrate my question.

I've been wondering things really. Like, if you were to make a Warhammer setting, could you adjust the classes to match the "feel" of the Warhammer "classes"?

For example when I look at the Avenger class it reminds me of Elven Wardancers. It's seems even better then the Ranger class for this purpose. Some things are easily changed (like, changing "Armour of Faith" to "Magical Tattoo's"), but what if I decided that in my setting Charisma would work better for them then Wisdom?

That's the tricky part.

Just watch out for attribute swaps that give unexpected synergies, like the aforementioned "Strength-based ranged attack" problem with a ranger. As long as you avoid collapsing separate multi-attribute dependencies, you should be okay.

Conversely, try to avoid making changes that "double up" Defenses--making Intelligence a highly-favored secondary stat for rogues, for example, runs the risk of forcing rogues to put their two best scores into the paired abilities that govern AC/Reflex Defense at the expense of Fort and Will (likewise, notice that races whose ability mods both improve the same Defense, like eladrin and warforged, tend to have better racial powers/abilities to compensate).

As long as you keep an eye on the repercussions of the changes you're making, you should be okay. 4E is pretty transparent in that regard.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

I am curious why you don't just make the character as a rogue which already does what you want it to without changing stats?

DS

 

[Wik]

I think the quick and dirty way is to swap abilities from the same group: Strength for Constitution, Dexterity for Intelligence, and Charisma for Wisdom. This changes a few skill synergies, and could mess up things like hit points and basic attacks, but beyond that, the math for everything would work out the same.

That being said, the concept detailed could work for an Artful Dodger Rogue, a Barbarian (who already need a good charisma), A Tempest Fighter, or the mentioned TWF Ranger.

 

[urzafrank]

Could you answer why you would change up classes to fit this concept when there is a class does all you want with out alteration?

As an aside remember do not be constrained by what class or classes this concept would have been in past editions.

 

[PrecociousApprentice]

Your example is not perfect, but the question is still good.

I am highly in favor of taking this kind of aproach to the game. This thread has a ton of good ideas about what you can change without major disruptions to balance.

That being said, this stuff should only be let into the game with the understanding that it will be removed if it is a problem.

 

[Byronic]

Your example is not perfect, but the question is still good.

I am highly in favor of taking this kind of aproach to the game. This thread has a ton of good ideas about what you can change without major disruptions to balance.

That being said, this stuff should only be let into the game with the understanding that it will be removed if it is a problem.

Thank you, this actually answers all the questions I had in one fell swoop.

 

[PrecociousApprentice]

No problem. That is one of my favorite threads here in a long time. I am glad that you liked it.