Alternate Bard

[Midnight Dawns]

I am looking for variant rules for a bard that does not learn magic. I seem to recall having seen this before. Does anyone else know anything about this? If not does anyone have suggestions for how to handle a no-magic bard?

 

[Darklone]

Minstrel IIRC.... some mongoose publishing book IIRC. Then there's the UA bard. And one of the Complete books has spell less Rangers, paladins and bards.

 

[two]

bard minus spellcasting

Wow, that's a tough one.

I'm not sure what I would do; Bard's spell casting is at full caster an while topping off at 6, and has lot of very nice spells.

Strip them away...and I'd have to replace it with a lot.

Bard without Spells is a big hit.

Up skills to 8. Increase inspire courage bonus by one (starting at +2/+2). Allow Ch to damage when using a weapon...I am not sure. That's a tough one.

Allow CH to AC? You gotta throw the bard a bone or two here.

 

[Midnight Dawns]

Well thanks for the help. I will look in the complete books and see what I can find. In the meantime anyone with suggestions please post, they would be appreciated.

 

[EvilGM]

Give em Marshal auras (Mini's HB)

 

[Machiavelli]

Okay, the bard's spells require actions to use. Replace them with another ability that requires actions to use. Charisma-to-AC and 8+Int skill points (and similar ideas) may not be over-powering, but they are fundamentally different from spellcasting, in that they give continuous bonuses, not activated bonuses.

 

[two]

Okay, the bard's spells require actions to use. Replace them with another ability that requires actions to use. Charisma-to-AC and 8+Int skill points (and similar ideas) may not be over-powering, but they are fundamentally different from spellcasting, in that they give continuous bonuses, not activated bonuses.

Well, ok, what?

A bunch of spell-like abilities, which are just like... spells...?

Some combat options that require a round to activate? Like what?

How do you retain the bard flavor?

There are not a lot of actions the bard can take in combat except those linked to bardic music. You could create a magical-type music for the bard... but this just is another way to introduce spells...

I really am at a bit of a loss here.

I think you are suggesting a bunch of standard action abilities, probably linked to bardic music... like what?

I would suggest maybe giving them a new bardic standard ability per level, like bardic music which could be marged with "inspire courage" to create different effects - much like spells, but without the spell overhead...?

1) charm person
2) shatter
3) shout
4) etc?

?? kinda lame I think

 

[two]

Skald

Thinking about it more, I'd suggest just making the bard more "skald-like."

Get rid of spellcasting and give the Bard martial weapons and full BAB.

That way you have a musical fighter-type with low HD and a full BAB; I like it.

Compares pretty closely to the Ranger.

 

[Artoomis]

I suggest a peak at some Bard prestige classes. IIRC, at least one does not have spell progression, and that may serve as a model to draw from.

 

[Artoomis]

One possible approach is to go with a skills-based character. Other than losing spells, change nothing except:

Give 8 (or maybe even 10!!) skill points per level.

At certain points give them Rogue-like take 10 abilities. Maybe at level 5 and 10, or even 5, 10 and 15.

Other skill bonuses of one type or another might be appropriate, too.

Possibly some free skill-based feats. Maybe even something unique.

Let them take 10 on some skills that do not allow take 10 normally.

Things like that.

I think Complete Adventurer has a skill-based prestige class - that's another possible place to go for inspiration.