D&D 5E Alternate Magic System

[Psikerlord#]

The vancian yes. I am also not a fan of the Arcane Divine separation.

Check out Low Fantasy Gaming RPG's magic system - one combined spell list, with a dark & dangerous magic vibe.

Free PDF (or print on demand): https://lowfantasygaming.com/

 

[RangerWickett]

Somebody should talk [MENTION=63]RangerWickett[/MENTION] into updating Elements of Magic to 5E.


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I've got ideas, man.

 

[sammyp03]

I'm not a fan of the Vancian inspired magic system inherent in throughout the various permutations of the D&D game. So for my home-rules, I've replaced it with a point-buy system. One where characters make up their own spell effects and the strength of the desired effect has an associated cost. IME point buy magic systems aren't necessarily a popular style of system especially when comparing it to the feel of D&D, but I find for my purposes they are very good for fluff purposes (especially for differentiating between different types of magic).

If I had to go with a magic system of the various D&D incarnations I do like, I'd have to go with 5e. It seems to me, that it has several reinterpretations of the originally presented Vancian system, which I find more fun when differentiating between magic using classes.

Interesting. Have you seen this?
https://www.reddit.com/r/DnDBehindT...raw_magic_an_alternative_magic_system_for_5th

It's pretty neat I think. A little bit OP but I think it's a good baseline.

 

[osarusan]

I've got ideas, man.

Ooooh please make this happen!
My players and I are watering at the mouth for a 5e Elements of Magic. The updated system in WOIN is awesome, but it doesn't translate easily into 5e power levels.

 

[RangerWickett]

If I were to do an alternative magic system for 5e, I wouldn't want to make it compatible with the existing classes, and at this point I'd probably end up scrapping a bunch of core rules to implement house rules I like.

For instance, spells per day don't interest me. I'd have some base mana that you start every encounter with, and then different ways based on magical tradition to get extra mana.

Like a pyromancer might have a 'cantrip' he can cast at will that creates a shell of fire around him as he draws upon the flames that fuel his magic. It might burn enemies a bit, but more importantly it charges up his fireball on the following turn. A mid-level pyromancer would start each encounter with enough mana to cast a couple strong spells, but after that he'd have to go back to drawing mana.

Or a necromancer might be able to suck a little life with his hands, but if he wants to cast something powerful he'd need to slit the throat of a dying creature.

Or a member of the Wayfarer's Guild could get mana by dashing, drawing upon their own movement to kickstart spells.

Different magic traditions would yield different play styles.

 

[Lanliss]

If I were to do an alternative magic system for 5e, I wouldn't want to make it compatible with the existing classes, and at this point I'd probably end up scrapping a bunch of core rules to implement house rules I like.

For instance, spells per day don't interest me. I'd have some base mana that you start every encounter with, and then different ways based on magical tradition to get extra mana.

Like a pyromancer might have a 'cantrip' he can cast at will that creates a shell of fire around him as he draws upon the flames that fuel his magic. It might burn enemies a bit, but more importantly it charges up his fireball on the following turn. A mid-level pyromancer would start each encounter with enough mana to cast a couple strong spells, but after that he'd have to go back to drawing mana.

Or a necromancer might be able to suck a little life with his hands, but if he wants to cast something powerful he'd need to slit the throat of a dying creature.

Or a member of the Wayfarer's Guild could get mana by dashing, drawing upon their own movement to kickstart spells.

Different magic traditions would yield different play styles.

That sounds interesting.

 

[osarusan]

If I were to do an alternative magic system for 5e, I wouldn't want to make it compatible with the existing classes, and at this point I'd probably end up scrapping a bunch of core rules to implement house rules I like.

For instance, spells per day don't interest me. I'd have some base mana that you start every encounter with, and then different ways based on magical tradition to get extra mana.

Like a pyromancer might have a 'cantrip' he can cast at will that creates a shell of fire around him as he draws upon the flames that fuel his magic. It might burn enemies a bit, but more importantly it charges up his fireball on the following turn. A mid-level pyromancer would start each encounter with enough mana to cast a couple strong spells, but after that he'd have to go back to drawing mana.

Or a necromancer might be able to suck a little life with his hands, but if he wants to cast something powerful he'd need to slit the throat of a dying creature.

Or a member of the Wayfarer's Guild could get mana by dashing, drawing upon their own movement to kickstart spells.

Different magic traditions would yield different play styles.

All of that sounds amazing. That's exactly the sort of thing my players and I loved about EOM.

Scrapping spells per day is not something I have tried, but I've played around with using the alternate magic points system in the 5e DMG and then allowing people to spend their hit dice during a short rest to restore MP instead of HP.

I like the idea of more flavorful ways to recover mana based on tradition though. It could allow for a large number of options, such as defilers who don't actually naturally regenerate magic but must slay living creatures to recover it. And it provides a mechanical explanation for how gods and demigods gain their powers based on the number of worshipers they have. Maybe a fire mage has to immerse his hands in natural fire to recover some magic points, or a water mage must soak in a bath or something like that. It opens up some really interesting environmental challenges and enhances the flavor (how would a pyromancer refill his magic if it were an undersea campaign? makes sense that a pyromancer might dislike being in wet areas...).

One of my favorite things about EOM was how beautifully it meshes with the great wheel cosmology, and it makes magic appear more like a science with the ability to uncover the secrets of the outer planes. It immerses the magic system more deeply into the game world, which is worth its weight in gold. While I like the idea of named spells in the core system, it really just feels like a stapled-on system that has no bearing whatsoever on the world itself. EOM's magic feels integrated.

 

[Satyrn]

I've got ideas, man.

Oh neat. I have the opportunity to tell you that Elements of Magic is the best alternative magic system I've ever seen for D&D.

Very nice work.

 

[RangerWickett]

The other idea I've got kicking around but haven't figured out how to work it is to provide more mechanical interactivity in magic, particularly mental effects. I find it boring to make a save or be removed from the encounter due to fear or a compulsion. There should be some way for the player to make choices for his character that give him a chance to get back to the fray. Not just lucky dice rolling. So after watching Legion on FX I'm tinkering with ~mindscape-ish~ mechanics.

 

[osarusan]

The other idea I've got kicking around but haven't figured out how to work it is to provide more mechanical interactivity in magic, particularly mental effects. I find it boring to make a save or be removed from the encounter due to fear or a compulsion. There should be some way for the player to make choices for his character that give him a chance to get back to the fray. Not just lucky dice rolling. So after watching Legion on FX I'm tinkering with ~mindscape-ish~ mechanics.

Now that sounds interesting.

I agree, mental things are really hard to adjudicate. On the one hand, you want to really be able to do some fun, cool stuff with mental effects. On the other hand, you also don't want to bog the game down with complicated rules that force you to check the reference books every round. I will say that while 5e can be over-simplistic, that can sometimes be preferable to being overly complex.

If you have anything you can share on what you're thinking about with mental effects I'd love to hear it! It evokes something like 2e's illusory damage effects that could actually kill you.