Hawk Diesel
Adventurer
Well, advantage/disadvantage doesn't come into play on initiative as often as with other d20 rolls in 5e, but a mid-level barbarian (level 7 I wanna say?) Get advantage on all initiative checks.
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Alternative Initiative System
- Thread starter Traxe
- Start date
In that case I would increase the barbarian's initiative cards by 50% (round down), which is equivalent to a 2nd die roll.
I had a playtest of this system yesterday using the 4E ruleset. We had one major combat for the night where the PCs had to capture a docked pirate ship. They ended up fighting 8 pirate minions, a pirate lookout (artillery), the First mate (controller), and the pirate captain (elite brute). Here’s a breakdown of how it went.
So, out of 11 PCs/Enemies the initiative sequence was set up as (plus their total initiative modifier):
• PC Rogue (+6 initiative)
• PC Cleric (+1 initiative)
• PC Fighter (+1 initiative)
• PC Sorcerer (+2 initiative)
• PC Monk (+4 initiative)
• PC Paladin (+1 initiative)
• PC Psion (+1 initiative)
• 8 Pirate Minions (+2 initiative)
• Pirate Lookout (+6 initiative)
• First Mate (+2 initiative)
• Pirate Captain (+2 initiative)
It took 1 minute and 37 seconds to setup the initiative deck (yeah, I timed it), having each PC pick their initiative card and assigning each enemy their initiative card, removing the non-used cards and then shuffling the deck.
The combat lasted 11 rounds with the start of the round having the initiative deck shuffled and then one card drawn at a time. I kept track of where each PC ended up on their initiative on a spreadsheet so I’d have some numbers to reference.
Here’s the average initiative place each combatant had at the end of the combat:
• PC Rogue (+6 initiative): 4.45
• PC Cleric (+1 initiative): 7.09
• PC Fighter (+1 initiative): 8.18
• PC Sorcerer (+3 initiative): 5.55
• PC Monk (+4 initiative): 4.64
• PC Paladin (+1 initiative): 9.64
• PC Psion (+1 initiative): 7.91
• 8 Pirate Minions (+2 initiative): 4.73
• Pirate Lookout (+6 initiative): 2.82
• First Mate (+2 initiative): 5.54
• Pirate Captain (+2 initiative): 5.55
The rogue’s initiative position went: 8th, 1st, 1st, 9th, 3rd, 3rd, 9th, 4th, 4th, 5th, 2nd for an average of 4.45. Comparing the Pirate Lookout to the rogue (since they both had +6 initiative) the Pirate Lookout’s initiative position went: 4th, 3rd, 4th, 3rd, 1st, 7th, 4th, 1st, 1st, 3rd, 1st, 3rd for an average of 2.82.
General first impressions: I think the system worked very well. It was very easy to use, taking very little time each round to implement. Bad luck and good luck seem to be well balanced (the bad luck paladin was 2nd to last or last place in 7 out of 11 rounds while the good luck Pirate Minion was in the top 2 a total of four times). The fact that each round had a different (unknown) order was fantastic – the PCs were required to improvise and adjust each round. It was exciting and flashy and nail-biting without being cumbersome or complex.
The combat only had four NPC groups, along with the seven players. Next week my PCs have a very large battle that includes a total of 11 NPC groups, making for a total of 18 initiative assignments. I'll be using Excel for that fight and we'll see how it goes.
I asked for Player feedback after the session was over. They really enjoyed the dynamic characteristic of having initiative change each round. They also enjoyed the simplicity of the alternative initiative system. I'll get a few emails throughout the week as they provide more in-depth feedback.
For comparison, I rolled initiative for each PC/NPC for each round the traditional method (1d20 + init modifiers) and then calculated the average initiative position each PC/NPC would have gone on. Here's the comparison of the averages of this alternative system to the traditional dice rolling:
Finally, as an option I may add one Joker card to the deck. The person that pulls the Joker card gets one small bonus (either a +2 to hit or a +2 to AC or a save until the start of their next turn). It will add an interesting element to the initiative system.
So, out of 11 PCs/Enemies the initiative sequence was set up as (plus their total initiative modifier):
• PC Rogue (+6 initiative)
• PC Cleric (+1 initiative)
• PC Fighter (+1 initiative)
• PC Sorcerer (+2 initiative)
• PC Monk (+4 initiative)
• PC Paladin (+1 initiative)
• PC Psion (+1 initiative)
• 8 Pirate Minions (+2 initiative)
• Pirate Lookout (+6 initiative)
• First Mate (+2 initiative)
• Pirate Captain (+2 initiative)
It took 1 minute and 37 seconds to setup the initiative deck (yeah, I timed it), having each PC pick their initiative card and assigning each enemy their initiative card, removing the non-used cards and then shuffling the deck.
The combat lasted 11 rounds with the start of the round having the initiative deck shuffled and then one card drawn at a time. I kept track of where each PC ended up on their initiative on a spreadsheet so I’d have some numbers to reference.
Here’s the average initiative place each combatant had at the end of the combat:
• PC Rogue (+6 initiative): 4.45
• PC Cleric (+1 initiative): 7.09
• PC Fighter (+1 initiative): 8.18
• PC Sorcerer (+3 initiative): 5.55
• PC Monk (+4 initiative): 4.64
• PC Paladin (+1 initiative): 9.64
• PC Psion (+1 initiative): 7.91
• 8 Pirate Minions (+2 initiative): 4.73
• Pirate Lookout (+6 initiative): 2.82
• First Mate (+2 initiative): 5.54
• Pirate Captain (+2 initiative): 5.55
The rogue’s initiative position went: 8th, 1st, 1st, 9th, 3rd, 3rd, 9th, 4th, 4th, 5th, 2nd for an average of 4.45. Comparing the Pirate Lookout to the rogue (since they both had +6 initiative) the Pirate Lookout’s initiative position went: 4th, 3rd, 4th, 3rd, 1st, 7th, 4th, 1st, 1st, 3rd, 1st, 3rd for an average of 2.82.
General first impressions: I think the system worked very well. It was very easy to use, taking very little time each round to implement. Bad luck and good luck seem to be well balanced (the bad luck paladin was 2nd to last or last place in 7 out of 11 rounds while the good luck Pirate Minion was in the top 2 a total of four times). The fact that each round had a different (unknown) order was fantastic – the PCs were required to improvise and adjust each round. It was exciting and flashy and nail-biting without being cumbersome or complex.
The combat only had four NPC groups, along with the seven players. Next week my PCs have a very large battle that includes a total of 11 NPC groups, making for a total of 18 initiative assignments. I'll be using Excel for that fight and we'll see how it goes.
I asked for Player feedback after the session was over. They really enjoyed the dynamic characteristic of having initiative change each round. They also enjoyed the simplicity of the alternative initiative system. I'll get a few emails throughout the week as they provide more in-depth feedback.
For comparison, I rolled initiative for each PC/NPC for each round the traditional method (1d20 + init modifiers) and then calculated the average initiative position each PC/NPC would have gone on. Here's the comparison of the averages of this alternative system to the traditional dice rolling:
| PC/NPC | Alternative Method | Dice Method |
| Rogue +6 | 4.45 | 5.73 |
| Cleric +1 | 7.09 | 5.91 |
| Sorcerer +3 | 5.55 | 5.45 |
| Paladin +1 | 9.64 | 6.27 |
| Monk +4 | 4.64 | 6.18 |
| Fighter +1 | 8.18 | 7.91 |
| Psion +1 | 7.91 | 6.45 |
| Pirate Minion +2 | 4.73 | 6.00 |
| Pirate Captain +2 | 5.55 | 5.73 |
| Pirate Lookout +6 | 2.82 | 4.55 |
| First Mate +2 | 5.45 | 6.09 |
Finally, as an option I may add one Joker card to the deck. The person that pulls the Joker card gets one small bonus (either a +2 to hit or a +2 to AC or a save until the start of their next turn). It will add an interesting element to the initiative system.
