Alternative rules systems for a Dark Sun game?

[physicscarp]

Years ago, a friend and I started working on a conversion of Dark Sun to the first edition of Legends of the Five Rings. I was really happy with how it was going, but moving and grad school put an end to it.

 

[lutecius]

I'd say True20.

It's D20 (duh) but very flexible in terms of character building (no actual classes)
I think the condition track is more realistic than hit points (less "gamey", if a bit more brutal) and would be a good fit for a harsh setting.

The system is highly customizable, you can easily remove powers that don't belong without affecting game balance, but getting all the monsters stats right will require some work.

 

[Angellis_ater]

Savage Worlds, already suggested, makes for fast and easy gaming that is easy to grasp but has surprising depth.

True20, because it is both familiar, yet completely different. Throws classes out the window and makes completely customizable characters possible.

If you want to retain use of the D&D3.5 system, we've put out a companion piece that, like Buy the Numbers, allows complete customization of everything but on a greater level. It is called Complete Control - check it out.

 

[Kinneus]

Not what you're looking for, I'm sure, but close enough to warrant a mention... Armageddon MUD is an excellent RPI MUD, and where I first cut my roleplaying teeth. It is heavily inspired by Dark Sun.

 

[Arawn76]

Use eden studios Unisystem. Grab the Witchcraft corebook and Dungeons & Zombies and with a little conversion magic you have a very gritty fantasy system you can use for DS. It already has magic & psionics and it's not unreasonable to reflavour the inspired as templars.

I used this about five years back to design a home setting called Kingdoms and I couldn't eyeball any problems with it.

 

[firesnakearies]

Depends what you like and what you don't like, in the first place.

Could you give some pointers? Like, how rules light or rules heavy you are willing (or wanting) to go, what sort of mechanics you'd like to be there, and whether there are any you can't stand (in this context, anyway), etc.

Some references to games you've played or even read, and like (or dislike, too) would be handy as well. . .

It's just that there are *so many* flippin' RPGs out there. srsly!

I'd prefer something on the heavier side as far as rules go. I don't especially like "rules-light" sort of games. I want some crunch, some solid mechanics. Just, hopefully elegant and flexible ones.

I want a system without classes or any other arbitrary restrictions on how the characters are built. Point-based systems are great. I like the flexibility of things like HERO System or GURPS, but those games have perhaps too much crunch density, or perhaps just mechanics which don't seem appealing.

I want something that can model the characters being able to do lots of cool stuff, whether that be involved gladiator martial arts, or complex psionic combat, or wielding magic, without having to be limited to a small list of very specific and limited "spells" or "moves" or "powers" that can only be acquired according to a set framework and used in a certain way.

I want more simulationism and more narrativism, and less gamism, compared to D&D.

I like dice pools, I like opposed rolls in combat, I like less swingy-ness in the resolution system, and more emphasis on the characters' capabilities and decisions, less on luck. The d20 is not my favorite system of resolving actions. I hate percentile, too. I can't say that I especially like games where you roll on tons of charts, either.

I like mechanics which reflect the characters' backgrounds in important ways. Lifepath-type systems always seem cool to me. Or personality/psychological elements to a character which have real effects on gameplay. Spiritual attributes, beliefs, nature, stuff like that always intrigues me in a game.

I want gritty, tactical, and crunchy combat, but also mechanics that emphasize role-playing and characterization, and make those things actually matter in a concrete way in the system.

I like advancement that lets the characters improve in whatever specific ways they want to, rather than just throwing standard blanket upgrades on everyone as they "level up".

I've played all editions of D&D, mostly, plus Champions, the Palladium family of games, World of Darkness/Storyteller, Shadowrun, Earthdawn, Warhammer FRP, Cyberpunk, and Star Wars. (Older versions of all of those except for D&D - not any newer editions from, say, the last 10 years.)

Shadowrun was probably my absolute favorite. I like the flexibility of HERO, but not really the way the game actually plays. I liked Earthdawn too, and old Star Wars a bit less so. Not too fond of Palladium, Warhammer, or Storyteller.

Games which I'm very intrigued by the idea of but know little about are Burning Wheel, Riddle of Steel, and the newer HeroQuest.

I don't mind doing some work adapting a game to Dark Sun, making house rules, creating the appropriate races and magic system myself based on the core ruleset. I just want a game basis that I like a lot, which is flexible yet has a lot of its own cool style and fun mechanics.

Lots of suggestions here though, already. So I'll start looking into some of those.

Thanks!

 

[Aus_Snow]

Eesh, that's a tricky bunch of requirements. . . So, other than the good suggestions already given:

The One Roll Engine might be worth looking into, via Nemesis, Reign and the like. But it doesn't cover every single point you listed. Reign, for example, has a kind of lifepath system built in, dice pools (rather neat ones, actually), characterisation mechanics (er, I think), tactical combat, and so on.

Likewise, EABA could be used, which would be somewhat along the lines of GURPS, but might appeal more. Very flexible, not so swingy at all. No lifepath, not a dice pool per se, although it could be thought of in that way. . .

Artesia (and Fuzion in general) could be worth a look, but it's pretty crunchy, and there are crazy amounts of stats (Artesia has FIFTEEN!). . . even so, many of your criteria are met by this game, weirdly enough. You'd have to come up with (or graft on) different magic/powers mechanics (e.g., from another Fuzion source perhaps), but the rest of the system is very close indeed, now I think about it some more. . . Oh, and it's partly derived from Cyberpunk, which you did name!

Each of those has some crunchy combat etc., but none of them is anywhere near say, HERO (IMO, that is).

Just to address the last three you named: Burning Wheel* (plus hacks, natch) might work OK, and it certainly hits most or all of those points, pretty squarely; Riddle of Steel does too, AFAIK; HeroQuest 2.0 on the other hand is (to the best of my knowledge) *way* over the story-oriented side of RPG land - IOW, it really doesn't have much in the way of, for example, combat crunch or anything of the sort, but the characterisation et al would be there in spades.


* A supplement to research is Magic Burner, containing many alternative magic systems - might even be something appropriate (? - I only have the core two, plus one other)

 

[LostSoul]

For Burning Wheel you'd need to come up with a list of new Lifepaths. Someone might already have done that. You'd also need to deal with psionics in some way; there's probably something in the Magic Burner about that.

The new version of HeroQuest has some strange ideas about setting difficulties. They go up or down based on your previous successes or failures.

The Shadow of Yesterday might work well; you'd have to come up with some Secrets for psionics. I don't know how hard that would be, since I've never done it before.

I think it might be interesting to play Dark Sun using Sword and Sorcerer. You're a defiler and your demon is the dark sun. That would be crazy.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

HERO would be my first choice- yes, I saw that you have issues with it- but keeping your objections in mind, I'd follow that suggestion with Mutants & Masterminds in conjunction with the Warriors & Warlocks source book.

90% of HERO's flex, less rule density, relatively low learning curve.

 

[Wycen]

Spirit of the Century, aka FATE.