D&D 5E alternatives to Nature domain?

[neobolts]

I’d be happy to. It’s not huge, but it feels really bad at first level to me.

At first level, a nature cleric gets:
Heavy Armor and shields
2 skills from Cleric list, 1 from nature, animal handling, or survival
3 Cleric cantrips, 1 Druid cantrip

Druid gets:
Medium armor, shields, and a metal restriction
2 skills from the Druid list, and herbalism kit
2 cantrips from the Druid list
Druidic language

Their spell selection is different, but comparable.

At second, clerics get channel divinity and Druids get wild shape. Land Druids get extra spell slots per day. They seem pretty comparable from here out, except that the Cleric has that little jump start of more stuff.

Great explanation of your concerns! I have played both and enjoyed both, but seeing level 1 side-by-side I can see how a new druid would feel "outshined" by a nature cleric in the same party.

 

[schnee]

Great explanation of your concerns! I have played both and enjoyed both, but seeing level 1 side-by-side I can see how a new druid would feel "outshined" by a nature cleric in the same party.

Well, the level 2 Rogue in my party got really angry at my level 2 Druid after I cast Entangle, held my own in combat, then turned into a Wolf to tank and give advantage, and then a mouse to scout. 'Is there anything you can't do?!?'

It's all relative. And D&D doesn't have equivalence at every level; it has spikes in power that equal out over the campaign.

 

[Kobold Stew]

In that sense, of having different plants or planting purpose, associated with different deities, I am not sure. A quick google of nature deities seems to answer this fairly easily.

The Greeks, of course, had the various nymphs that had different purposes: dryads for trees, meliae for flowers, naiads for fresh water/rivers/lakes, nereids for the sea/salt water. Dionysus (the Roman's Bacchus) was for grape growing, harvest, and naturally, then, wine and winemaking, associated with dolphins and leopards (wild animals), while Demeter (the Roman's Ceres) was specifically crops and grain and so agriculture and harvest/bounty specifically, while Artemis was forests and the creatures therein, specifically, along with the hunt and archery and the moon.

I think I am failing to articulate the issue clearly, and for that I am sorry. I'll try one more time.

The Greeks do not have specific divinities for cultivated nature as opposed to uncultivated nature. The binary division seen in the literary sources is between nomos and phusis, and while I know it is more complex than that in religious practice, the distinction holds for the most part. When it doesn't (as with pastoralism), it is shown to be distinctive or liminal explicitly.

Further, it is not the case that Dionysus or Demeter are simply agriculture or fertility gods. Each is more complex, and has multiple spheres of influence depending on the cult title by which they are worshipped. (And there are more: Zeus Bromios [Rainy Zeus] is an agricultural version of Zeus, in a way that Zeus Ktesios [Zeus of Possessions] or Zeus Horkios [Zeus of Oaths] are not). And Greek worship was typically to a specific cult aspect of a god. For this understanding of Greek religion, see the chapter on polytheism in Religion in the Ancient Greek City.

The only exception that I can think of is Oporia ("Harvest") who appears as a personification in Aristophanes' comedy Peace. She and Theoria ("Festival") are (nude) female personifications of a harvest festival; to my knowledge there is no sense that she is worshipped in any way in real life, and is here used in a comedy for a specific literary purpose.

Nor is it accurate simply to map Demeter onto the Roman Ceres or Dionysus onto the Roman Bacchus. The interpretation Romana is a convenient shorthand, but it isn't reflecting continuity of actual belief or narrative. (An easy example of this includes the virgin Athena being mapped onto Minerva the fertility god.)

Roman religion is different. It does have distinct gods associated with the garden and not other types of vegetation. (Some of those gods in time do develop other spheres of influence, but they are not agricultural.)

You made the claim that "the Romans didn't really do anything that the Greeks hadn't first" (in the context of religion). It may be that you believe that and aren't just being flippant. If that's the case, I'd suggest you look at the 2 vol. Religions of Rome by Mary Beard and John North, or John North's smaller book, Roman Religion. Both are well-written, well-supported with primary and secondary material.

So we are left with my claim that, as distinct from other cultures, the Roman had specific gods (and associated religious practices) for gardens and "cultivated nature" as distinct form their gods for "uncultivated nature". (I'll add that the evidence points to this being from the early republic, before the emergence of Jupiter and the Greek-style pantheon). This is not paralleled in Greek culture, nor (so far as I can see) by the other examples you cite. (Unless there is evidence that the Green Man does not represent wild nature.)

My initial point (post 26) was trying to support a cool idea that you posted -- one I liked and thought was interesting. I regret that it has not been read this way.

 

[Stalker0]

Well, the level 2 Rogue in my party got really angry at my level 2 Druid after I cast Entangle, held my own in combat, then turned into a Wolf to tank and give advantage, and then a mouse to scout. 'Is there anything you can't do?!?'

It's all relative. And D&D doesn't have equivalence at every level; it has spikes in power that equal out over the campaign.

Are you a moon Druid? I will say that I found them pretty op until about 4-5 level...then they balance out nicely.

 

[steeldragons]

My initial point (post 26) was trying to support a cool idea that you posted -- one I liked and thought was interesting. I regret that it has not been read this way.

Right. Ok. Cool.

Enjoy.

 

[cbwjm]

Changing domains is easy enough, decide on whether you want it to be primarily a caster or a melee combatant. The hardest part would be the domain powers.

From the examples in the opening post, Gods of Agriculture, Community, or the Hearth; the life domain seems the most appropriate with perhaps some changes to the domain spell lists (agriculture could have some plant spells, for instance).

Using the life domain as the base, if I wanted to adjust the domain for a god of agriculture, I would make the following changes.

Life (Agriculture) domain
Domain Spells (changes in bold. Normally I'd try to change at least 1 spell/spell level to make the domain feel a little more different to the original life domain but current spell options are limited and I also only have access to the SRD. Updating thematic spells from earlier editions could also be a good option)
Cleric Level
1: entangle, cure wounds
3: lesser restoration, spike growth
5: beacon of hope, plant growth
7: death ward, guardian of faith
9: mass cure wounds, raise dead

Level 1 changes
Remove heavy armour proficiency
Gain proficiency in animal handling or nature
Gain the Druidcraft cantrip

Level 8 changes
Remove Divine Strike
Gain Potent spellcasting

Unless I had some great ideas for domain powers, these would be all the changes I would make for the domain of a god of Agriculture.

 

[schnee]

Are you a moon Druid? I will say that I found them pretty op until about 4-5 level...then they balance out nicely.

Nah, not even - I'm a Land Druid. They're still a little OP at that level, mostly due to how many different things they can do. At 2nd level a Wolf is pretty useful in combat.

We're now 4th, and it's leveled out. The Rogue is dishing out serious damage and using Cunning Action to it's fullest, and Wild Shape is no longer combat-worthy.

 

[tuxedoraptor]

the nature domain, despite never having been used in my group, nor have we seen a druid. Irritated me to the core. I took away their heavy armor proficency and gave them druidic weapon proficency*
I have not seen anything terribly wrong with the druid in my glance over of the class. Other than the irritating insistence that druids have scimitar proficency.

*druid weapon proficency means they are proficent in the revised druid weapons:
club,greatclub,spear,sickle,quarterstaff,handaxe,unarmed strike,shortbow,sling,trident,longbow,net,whip and flail.

 

[Cyvris]

For those looking for a non-wildshaping Druid, you might want to look at this variant from the 3.x SRD:



I've always liked this -- a distinct flavour that could be ported to 5e pretty easily.

One further advantage of the Nature cleric is its Single Attribute Dependency -- with Shillelagh, both spell casting and melee combat can be keyed off of Wisdom; that's an advantage as measured against other clerics, though.

(And melee is assumed, with the heavy armour proficiency).

This is the type of druid I've always wanted to play. I love the concept of Druids, but have always disliked the "Shapeshifting" aspect. There is no real "Nature Gish" (Barbarian sort of fills this though the flavor isn't really "right"), which is why all the 5e characters I have played have been Nature Domain Clerics. It fills a 'niche' that really does seem to be missing in the base game in almost all editions of D&D.

 

[Mephista]

I wish there was a "nature" domain that was tighter thematically and felt more "cleric" than druid, something like domain of Agriculture, Community, or Hearth.

Has anyone revised or replaced the Nature domain in their game?

Well, for the fun of it, I wrote up sub classes for a whole host of missing "occupations" in D&D-ville. Here's the farmer-cleric:

Plant Domain
Cleric Level Spells
1st - speak with animals, animal friendship
3rd - lesser restoration, augury
5th - Speak with Plants, Plant Growth
7th - Aura of Purity, Dominate Beast
9th - Awaken, Commune

Bonus Proficiency
When you choose this domain at 1st level, you gain proficiency with farmer tools, animal handling, the whip as well as the Guidance cantrip.

Farmer
Also starting at 1st level, you are granted a green thumb from up above. Whenever Guidance is used to enhance a roll dealing with plants or beasts, you may double the result of the roll.

Channel Divinity: Whip It. Whip it Good.
Starting at 2nd level, you can use your Channel Divinity while cracking a whip to frighten off animals, insects or beasts. This can be used for pest control as well as to scare off predators or corral livestock. As per turning undead, but affecting animals that are going after your plants or livestock.

Harvest Festival
Beginning at 6th level, you learn rituals to guarantee a healthy harvest. This increases the chance of flowers and multiple births.

Divine Strike
At 8th level, you gain the ability to infuse your whip with divine energy. Once on each of your turns when you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can cause the attack to deal an extra 1d4 radiant damage to the target. When you reach 14th level, the extra damage increases to 2d4. If the target is a beast, it must make a Will save versus being frightened.

Avatar of the Harvest God
Most harvest festivals prepare a sacrifice of some kind. Sometimes, its a wicker person. Othertimes, its an animal, or some of the harvest. In this case, the cleric sacrifices themselves as part of the harvest - they are hunted down, burned, or otherwise slain. For the next year, everyone in the region benefits from the Bless and Guidance spells when related to agriculture or animal husbandry.

In case it needs to be said: This is not meant to be an adventurer.