Am I nuts or could this possibly be one of the most powerful builds I've ever seen?

[reveal]

Dude its simple. The guys who made that bison template did not know about the Master of many forms. Likewise the guys who put Master of many forms together likely did not know or factor in this template. They are clearly not meant to work together and to assume that they should borders on the willfully ignorant.

MoMF is meant to be for Druids or monsters with natural shapeshifting ability. Its too good even as it stands. All that nonsense about shapechange being better and so on. Yeah that might be right, but the majority of games do not involve 17+ level PC's which more or less rules out shapechange. They do however often involve 9-14 level PC's and at those levels MoMF overpowers all other melee classes (depending only on how the dm interprets the requirement of familarity with the form).

In short, no I do not think it should work or that it even would make for a fun game (at least not for the other non-MoMF players).

It's not that simple. It is broken, yes, and is not a fair character in the least. I would never let this in a game I DM nor would I ever play it.

But to say you simply can't do it because "that's not what the people who wrote it wanted" is specious reasoning at best. If you start second-guessing what the writer "meant" or "wanted" you can make the rule bend to whatever you want. You simply must follow the RAW or house rule what you want because you can't make judgements based upon your guess as to how a writer was feeling that day.

 

[monboesen]

I'm not. I'm saying that WOTC (and secondary d20 producers) spits out so many books that any one game designer can't know the ins and outs of all rules or how different books will synerergize. Thats for the dm (and the players) to do in their own particular game.

Anyone can find loopholes and inconsistencies to use in their favor with enough additional products and rules.

 

[Corsair]

They do however often involve 9-14 level PC's and at those levels MoMF overpowers all other melee classes (depending only on how the dm interprets the requirement of familarity with the form).

I gotta disagree here. High charisma paladin with divine might, or a frenzied berserker could EASILY give a MoMF a run for his money, if not outright demolish him.

 

[foxylady]

Right, MoMF expands on what you can normally turn into. And the hathor thingy limits what you can normally turn into.

Thus, if you use your hathor 'at will' wildshape you can turn into any giant, ooze, etc etc that you want with 19hd or less SO LONG AS ITS A COW.

By that reasoning, a Druid with Draconic Wildshape can't turn into a dragon, because druidic wildshape restricts you to animal forms. The Divine Minion's restriction on forms is irrelevant, as is the druidic one, because MoMF adds additional permitted forms. The wording of MoMF is clear that it modifies your existing wildshape ability rather than adding a new one.

You can use your MoMF extra wildshape uses (with a 0-1 hour duration depending how nice the DM is and a move action to use them) to turn into non-cow forms, but then you're limited to 8-9 HD forms.

Or would be, but for errata adding Wilding to MoMF.

Of course you could argue he doesn't qualify as all as MoMF doesn't require 'wild shape ability', it specifically requires 'wild shape class ability'... which he doesn't have.

You're just hair splitting. The ability to "wildshape as an 11th level druid" is clearly a virtual prerequisite to any class requiring "wild shape class ability", and at the time it was written no race had wildshape as a racial ability. Would you prohibit a wolverine from taking a class requiring Rage as a prerequisite?

 

[foxylady]

The character itself is a wuss. Any other character could beat it in a straight fight.

Then what's the problem? "gets beat up by anybody" isn't a ringing endorsement for uberness.

It's what it can shift in to that is the powerful part. For example, the Arcane Ooze from MM3.

When the party's spellcasters start losing spells, how popular will you be then? PCs do not exist in a vaccum. They must work with other party members.

So, again, it's not the character itself. It's what the character can potentially change into that makes it so darned powerful.

The character gets versatility, as the expense of being relatively weak. You don't have the damage-dealing potential of a great melee build, you don't have spellcasting (which as we all know is very powerful), and you don't aid the party as a whole (like a Bard). Given a choice of alternatives, why would any party want you?

 

[Andor]

Actually I don't think it's a +1 la race. If I'm reading the description correctly you need to already have the celestial or fiendish template before you can turn something into a divine minion. So tack on a couple extra points of LA....

 

[RigaMortus]

This is a powerful build...

"The Cheater of Mystra"

Human Cleric of Mystra 5/ Dweomerkeeper 10/Divine Disciple 5

Dweomerkeeper is from the Complete Divine Web enhancement.
Divine Disciple is from Players Guide to Faerun

1 Cleric1 (Magic/Rune) Magical Training, Divine Metamagic (Persistant)
2 Cleric2
3 Cleric3 Extend Spell
4 Cleric4
5 Cleric5
6 Dweomerkeeper1 Initiate of Mystra
7 DwK2
8 Divine Disciple1
9 DiD2 Extra Turning
10 DiD3
11 DiD4 (Spell Domain)
12 DiD5 Quicken Spell
13 DwK3
14 DwK4
15 DwK5 Reach Spell
16 DwK6
17 DwK7
18 DwK8 Maximize Spell
19 DwK9
20 DwK10

Recommended Spells for Mantle of Spells:

6th summon monster III

This one is discussable. I think its quite handy to have some summoning ready all the time.

Anyspell would be also nice, of course

13th greater anyspell

You can prepare any arcane spell of up to 5th level. Polymorph self, Create Magic Tatoo, the list is endless

15th Greater Dispel Magic

You never know when you need this one.
Counterspell if you want, dispel when you want and never waste a spell-slot on the spell

17th heal

Just in case your party thinks a cleric should be an healer, you can prepare combat, utility and buff spells and have some spontaneus heal ready nontheless.

19th Miracle

Just combine this one with your su-ability and after a few days no member of your party will feel the need to read a tome anymore

Talk to your gods (read: DM) before if they like all these "Miracles" happen every day, maybe its wise to choose something else

Why is this build called "Cheater of Mystra"?

This build combines nearly all abilities from the new books PGtF and CD.

Spells at lvl 14 for example:
- persistant holy star: spell turning, +10 AC or 7d6 fire damage. the whole day.
- quickened divine favor: +6 to attack and damage
- extended spikes for +10 damage
- extended magic vestment (*2) for +8 AC
- extended greater magic weapon for +4 to attack and damage
- extended shield of faith (only 28 min) +6 AC
- polymorph self (planetar) for +17 AC, Str 25, Dex 19, Con 20, Immunity to acid, cold, and petrification, fly 90 ft. (good), large size
- persistant righteus might, size huge, +8 Str, +4 Con, +4 AC, DR 10/evil (if your DM let it stack with polymorph, otherwise get divine power)

(this list does not claim to be complete)

Without magic equipment:
AC: 63 (10 + 12 (fullplate) + 6 (animated shield) + 6 (deflection) + 21 (natural) - 2 (size) + 10 (circumstance))
Attack: +30/+25 ( 9 (BAB) +11 (str) + 6 (divine favor) + 4 (gmw)) [smile into the face of ANY monster]
Damage: 4d6 (huge darkwood greatsword) + 36

This build is just gamebreaking. I'll explain why.
At high levels you are surrounded by an antimagic field all the time. nobody can cast spells at you and all spell-effects you come close to are supressed. also all magic items. but YOU can still cast spells and all your normal spells are up and running. Everything but artifacts and deities is useless against you while you rain death and destruction and are buffed up to the head.
You are polymorphed all day into some big-a** outsider. at lvl 12 for example into an kelvezu, adding 1d6 con-drain and 8d6 sneak-dice to your attacks as well as giving you str 29, dex 31 and con 18 including the associated hitpoints...
Thats still not all folks. You can as well transform your spells into su-abilities certain times per day. means: no material components, no XP-cost. thats miracle, gate, everything for free. There are a lot of abuses a creative player can find, i wont mention them all here but if you dig the appropriate threads you'll find a few

Be prepared to 15-ton-bricks falling on you, DMs banning all and everything from their game and you being forced to play a commoner. anyhow, enjoy this build!

 

[DevoutlyApathetic]

Does DiD change you into an outsider at level 5? I assume that's how you're polymorphing into such.

You're missing several of the errata changes there. DF and RM have both changed.

Also the choice of huge size and a +4 bonus to hit and damage over 11 points of BAB strikes me as incredibly silly.

 

[reveal]

Actually I don't think it's a +1 la race. If I'm reading the description correctly you need to already have the celestial or fiendish template before you can turn something into a divine minion. So tack on a couple extra points of LA....

""Mulhorandi divine minion" (hereafter "divine minion") is an acquired template that can be added to any humanoid, monstrous humanoid, humanoid or monstrous humanoid with the celestial or fiendish template, or humanoid-shaped outsider (referred to hereafter as the base creature)." (Emphasis Added)

It applies to any humanoid, monstrous humanoid, humanoid-shaped outsider or one of the first two with a celestial or fiendish template.

 

[Dark Dragon]

AFAIK, Divine Metamagic was errated. IIRC, the character needs the feat you want to use with Divine Metamagic, Persistent Spell in this case. A little drawback, at least.
But still, a powerful PC build...