D&D 5E An idea for improving weaker warlock invocations

[CapnZapp]

The original suggestion, to remove Concentration for a particular spell you take via a "weak" invocation, could work.

But then the thread started suggesting some kind of more general ability, where you just add "weak" invocation spells to the warlock spell list, and worse, that you could pick your conc-free spell yourself.

That's way out of line, and I wouldn't recommend it.

The original suggestion, where you spend your invocation and get one (1) fixed spell you can use without concentration, and by doing so aren't picking one of the "better" invocations, is powerful enough.

 

[Kryx]

Allowing hex to be cast without concentration is totally fine and what I had envisioned when it was suggested. Hex (and Hunter's Mark) shouldn't require concentration imo.

Beyond hex I agree with Cap that allowing 2 concentration spells isn't something that I'd do.

 

[CapnZapp]

Furthermore I would limit this to the invocations the main guides all agree are red or purple.

Thief of Five Fates: red in Blade, Book, and Chain, black in Pact-making 101, not rated by RPG.BOT. Sorry this to means leaving it as is.

Sign of Ill Omen: purple, orange (=purple), and red. Yes, this invocation sounds like could get no-concentration. BUT, the spell itself already allows for a no-concentration casting, if you use a level 5 slot, which of course you'd gain at 9th level. So, I'd add "at character level 9, you do not need to concentrate on this invocation".

Mire the Mind: green, blue, orange - so leaving untouched.

Bewitching Whispers: purple, red, orange - probably a candidate, even though the motivations are a bit dodgy*
*) I disagree with the assumption "Not as much fun when the enemies have ranged weapons. Which, given Fly, most enemies should have at this point." No, even at mid- to high level a surprising number of foes have weak ranged attacks and few ways to close to melee. Also, that you have to chase down enemies as a bad thing? Wut? This isn't WoW where feared mobs run off and trigger new groups!

Dreadful Word: purple, orange, red - okay

Sculptor of Flesh: blue, sky blue, blue - definitely needs no improvement, the best rating

Minions of Chaos: green, red, green - I'd keep as is

Do note this does nothing for something like Beast Speech or Otherworldly Leap, which even the designers realized could be given out as an at-will, and still be pretty weak.

In the end, you'd have to do some careful analysis, and you'd still change very little in practice.

Personally I'd hold off until WotC makes another pass at the class. Which won't happen, but should have.

 

[Kryx]

Furthermore I would limit this to the invocations the main guides all agree are red or purple.

Adding 1 spell to the list of options to choose from is a horrible invocation.

If an invocation functions as Visions of Distant Realms (allowing it to be cast at will) or if it was structured as "you can cast ____ once without expending your spell slot" then it has value.

Most of these should already be on the default Warlock list. Bane, Bestow Curse, and Compulsion aren't warlock spells? Crazy talk.

Do note this does nothing for something like Beast Speech

Combine these into 1 invocation imo:
Beast Speech
You can cast animal friendship, speak with animals, and animal messenger at will, without expending spell slots.

 

[CapnZapp]

Adding 1 spell to the list of options to choose from is a horrible invocation.

Why are you quoting me? I haven't suggested that.

If an invocation functions as Visions of Distant Realms (allowing it to be cast at will) or if it was structured as "you can cast ____ once without expending your spell slot" then it has value.

Those aren't the ones discussed. Precisely because no change is needed.

Most of these should already be on the default Warlock list. Bane, Bestow Curse, and Compulsion aren't warlock spells? Crazy talk.

Again, that I don't mention this is because I was discussing something else.

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[Kryx]

Why are you quoting me? I haven't suggested that.

The features your suggesting to keep do exactly that:

You can cast bane once using a warlock spell slot. You can't do so again until you finish a long.

The only thing that invocation does is add a spell to your spell list and allow you to know it. That's it! It even limits it further by only allowing that spell once per short rest. Those type of invocations are terrible.

I'm quoting you because you're suggesting that they aren't terrible and have expressed an opinion that they do no need change. I, and several other posters here, disagree with both of those assertions. The invocations you're talking about are terrible and should just be on the warlock spell list for you to choose from.

 

[Gadget]

I would add my voice to others that say Sculptor of Flesh is probably worth it as is. I would probably quibble about just flat out adding Polymorph to the Warlock spell list; the others are probably okay. On solution I have heard is to allow the invocations enable the warlock to cast the subject spells once per day without a spell slot, but for many, that is still kind of weak. I like the suggestion of the invocations allowing the spell to be cast once per day without concentration.

 

[Stalker0]

I think the concentration idea is good. I'm also fine with those invocation spells to the warlock spell list and then allowing them a free cast 1/short rest instead of long. The invocation is the primary reason to take a warlock imo, it should be damn good.