An open letter to WoTC

[Wayside]

Either way, in the end it seems your problem is not so much with using .NET (as C++ would have had the same problems you comment for example) but with doing a native app. And the debate of native apps vs web apps has no clear winner.

C++ and .NET aren't comparable. As in, it makes no sense to say you could do X in C++ or .NET. You can write for .NET in C++, Python, Ruby, etc. Most people use C# because it's a) very productive, b) has a rich set of abstractions (anonymous functions, tuples, etc.), and c) has excellent official documentation coupled with an enormous, helpful community.

Apps are harder to pirate (especially on Apple) vs a PDF that I could grab off certain sites in less than a minute.

iOS apps are only harder to pirate if you're stuck in Apple's walled garden. By default Apple only lets you run software you've bought through their store. But since jailbreaking is a protected right in the US and there's an abundance of freely available software that will do it for you automagically, nobody who would pirate the PDF is going to have any trouble pirating an app.

 

[Dire Bare]

iOS apps are only harder to pirate if you're stuck in Apple's walled garden. By default Apple only lets you run software you've bought through their store. But since jailbreaking is a protected right in the US and there's an abundance of freely available software that will do it for you automagically, nobody who would pirate the PDF is going to have any trouble pirating an app.

Wrong. I am not a tech geek, not a programmer, and there is no way I could figure out how to pirate an iOS app . . . at least not without going out there and acquiring some new skills, and like many folks on the net, I'm way too lazy to do that.

But I could easily pirate a PDF. I have the book, I have a scanner, and sharing files online, legit or otherwise, is pretty cake.

iOS apps aren't un-pirateable I'm sure, but they are most certainly much more difficult to do so. And I imagine that updating a pirated app is a pain the arse (although I may be wrong on that one, of course).

 

[Dire Bare]

I do think that those who know something about programming arguing back and forth on this thread kinda prove my earlier point.

Which programming language, platform, etc, etc is "best" is hardly a "no-brainer" and is in just as much contention as which edition of D&D is the "best".

I'm not saying WotC made all the right choices when creating the apps for DDI, both the original and our current version, but I'm pretty happy ignoring anybody who "knows" that the folks over there are just fools who made the absolute wrong decisions in every way regarding the implementation of DDI.

It's just a different angle on the edition wars, and I'm tired of all that hoopla.

 

[Dire Bare]

The thing is pirates are going to pirate. A quick search now turns up plenty of 4e PDFs. So they still haven't prevented piracy, but managed to disappoint and frustrate customers that would *pay* for PDFs.

No, they haven't prevented piracy. But they choose not to enable it either. I'm okay with that. I'd like to be able to purchase digital copies of game books like many others, but I'll leave the crying foul and armchair quarterbacking to others.

WotC has plans in the digital distribution of their products. How long it will take them to deliver that to us, and if it will be in a format that will catch on we'll have to wait and see. In the meantime, I've got plenty of geeky things, D&D or otherwise, to keep me busy until that happens.

 

[IronWolf]

No, they haven't prevented piracy. But they choose not to enable it either. I'm okay with that. I'd like to be able to purchase digital copies of game books like many others, but I'll leave the crying foul and armchair quarterbacking to others.

All they have gained is disenfranchising their own customers and losing income. Meanwhile, pirated PDFs are still out there for consumption.

As for crying foul and armchair quarterbacking dig. It is a discussion forum here. We come here to discuss things - some negative and some positive. Not everyone agrees, but we are here to discuss things. It would be a pretty quiet place if we all chose not to talk about things we like or dislike or how we think things could be better.

WotC has plans in the digital distribution of their products. How long it will take them to deliver that to us, and if it will be in a format that will catch on we'll have to wait and see. In the meantime, I've got plenty of geeky things, D&D or otherwise, to keep me busy until that happens.

And I certainly agree. Paizo and other gaming companies have been taking taking my money hand over fist in both physical and electronic form since they do offer distribution methods that fit my gaming style. Money that used to go to WotC back in the day.

 

[Vicente]

C++ and .NET aren't comparable. As in, it makes no sense to say you could do X in C++ or .NET. You can write for .NET in C++, Python, Ruby, etc. Most people use C# because it's a) very productive, b) has a rich set of abstractions (anonymous functions, tuples, etc.), and c) has excellent official documentation coupled with an enormous, helpful community.

I compared C++ to C# because they both work on the platforms we are talking about and the conversation was more or less going for trying to reach as many platforms as possible with the DDI apps.

As far as I know, if you want to target Android you can use C++ and Java, or C# if you pay for Monodroid. If you want to target iOS you can use C++ or Objective-C, or C# if you pay for Monotouch. You can use both C++ and C# in Windows and Mac (with Mono). And you can use C# in Windows Phone.

Using one language or the other has the same issues more or less: you can make all your app logic common to every platform, but the UI has to be changed: the UI toolkits are different, and also the form factor and way of input of each device are different, which makes designing a different UI important.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

I spend most of my development time in Java, although my use of Scala has been steadily increasing. I've also done recent work using Objective-C and C. I did a lot of C# and .NET development several years ago, but haven't touched it in a while. I was recently bringing myself up to speed with C#, and found myself pleasantly surprised at how the language has evolved. It has some nice features, these days. I'm less enthusiastic about .NET, but C# isn't bad at all.

 

[falcarrion]

FYI
Even Warhammer has jumped on the mobile bandwagon. They now have 9 books in itunes. with free samples.

 

[Wayside]

Wrong. I am not a tech geek, not a programmer, and there is no way I could figure out how to pirate an iOS app . . . at least not without going out there and acquiring some new skills, and like many folks on the net, I'm way too lazy to do that.

In 2009 or 2010 jailbreaking still required some manual fiddling, so you would've been correct just a few years ago. But we're long past that point. Today jailbreaking "just works" -- no skills required -- and is far less time-consuming than, to take your other example, scanning an entire book to create a PDF. You google "ios jailbreak," download Absinthe or equivalent, run it with your phone plugged into your computer, and voila.

Once the phone is jailbroken, both legal unofficial apps and illegal pirated apps are as easy to use as any program on any computer (generally easier, actually, because mobile software lacks the overengineered DRM schemes that pollute so much desktop software). At this point it's just a matter of sharing files online, which, as you say, "is pretty cake."

I don't know why we're even discussing this, though. What are the odds of WotC making a standalone app like the first Character Builder? If they made an app, it would be a thin client for a Web service, like the current Character Builder, and this kind of thing is effectively resistant to piracy. While still technically piratable, doing so requires reverse engineering to a degree that pirates normally reserve for big ticket items like World of Warcraft and Diablo III.

 

[Dire Bare]

In 2009 or 2010 jailbreaking still required some manual fiddling, so you would've been correct just a few years ago. But we're long past that point. Today jailbreaking "just works" -- no skills required -- and is far less time-consuming than, to take your other example, scanning an entire book to create a PDF. You google "ios jailbreak," download Absinthe or equivalent, run it with your phone plugged into your computer, and voila.

That doesn't surprise me, heh. Progress and all.

Once the phone is jailbroken, both legal unofficial apps and illegal pirated apps are as easy to use as any program on any computer (generally easier, actually, because mobile software lacks the overengineered DRM schemes that pollute so much desktop software). At this point it's just a matter of sharing files online, which, as you say, "is pretty cake."

I'll buy that it would be pretty easy for me to download a pirated PDF, and just about as easy to download a pirated (or non-Apple approved) app for my smart phone. But I highly doubt that I could take a "official" app and pirate that myself. Although I do understand it only takes one person to make the pirated version of the PDF or app for it to spread around the intertubes for all to share . . . but I also understand a company position that doesn't wish to enable that by using a very non-secure method of selling its products. Besides, I agree with many that the reasons for WotC not selling PDFs of the back catalog go beyond fear of piracy.

I don't know why we're even discussing this, though. What are the odds of WotC making a standalone app like the first Character Builder? If they made an app, it would be a thin client for a Web service, like the current Character Builder, and this kind of thing is effectively resistant to piracy. While still technically piratable, doing so requires reverse engineering to a degree that pirates normally reserve for big ticket items like World of Warcraft and Diablo III.

Well, if their current strategy is unlikely to be pirated, I suppose that is in line with one of their stated reasons for the current DDI app and the move away from PDFs, avoiding piracy.

While I certainly buy the idea that taking their current software and making a quality tablet or smartphone app (or series of apps) would not be an easy thing to do . . . . I would be surprised if at some point they don't follow the rest of the world and jump in on that. It seems to be the way of the future, at least for now. I can see them being slow to adopt for a variety of reasons, but eventually they will probably release mobile apps, if perhaps for 6e (heh).