D&D 5E And Lo, the Fighter Did Get a Shtick of his Own... COMBAT SUPERIORITY!

[Mengu]

Boosting or dice pools are used in many games. I think it's a fine game mechanic. I just don't know why it needs to be unique to the fighter... Why couldn't a wizard use his dice pool to boost the damage of his magic missile or the defensive benefit of his shield spell, or the area of his fireball? Why couldn't the Cleric use it to boost the amount of healing, the bonus of his shield of faith, or increase the targets of his turn undead?

I don't think they have managed to find the answer to their initial question of "What makes the fighter unique compared to other classes?" In 4e, the identity of the weaponmaster is pretty clear, they are a martial defender class. They use melee weapons, have some innate toughness, and they have abilities that help defend their allies and make it difficult for enemies to ignore them. 5e currently has no schtic for the fighter, he is just a dude with a weapon, armor, and hit points. There is nothing more to it. And this new mechanic is just a mechanic. It is not a unifying/defining identity for the class. Are they implying a rogue can't be a swashbuckler and strike back with an immediate action? A paladin can't intercept an enemy's attack with his shield to protect an ally? A ranger can't master two weapon fighting beyond what a feat provides? Nothing the article says holds up to scrutiny.

Before throwing random game mechanics around, I wish they would define (in words rather than mechanics) what they think the fighter should be good at. Swinging a weapon, and being tough, is clearly not a sufficient answer based on their poll results.

 

[Someone]

Now we're arriving at something. Sounds good in principle (and the idea is splatbook friendly, which won't hurt at the moment of getting adopted)

I wonder if the basics could be adapted to other classes; rogues already have backstab dice, and would be simple to expand the concept to them.

 

[Connorsrpg]

I couldn't diagree with the 'lack of role' more. This is a great way to influence the Fighter's role in the group without the whole class being shoe-horned into one role only.

This actually sounds very interesting to me. I like the idea of choice of styles and the mechanic itself sounds like a lot of fun.

 

[1of3]

According to mearls the mechanic started as rogue ability:

Here's a bit of trivia I forgot in this week's L&L article - the fighter mechanic started life as a dodge mechanic for the rogue.

https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/229808296087932929

 

[Li Shenron]

I think this is a good way to go!

+1 for being at-will (per round) so that there is no problem for those who have issues with explaining limitations of use to mundane abilities

+1 for being a unique mechanic that gives a reason to stay single-class in Fighter BUT doesn't become a requirement for certain character concepts

+1 for the same mechanic to include low-complexity options (bonus damage) and high-complexity options

But I'm sad that they're not doing the two themes thing. I wanted a dual-wielding magic-user fighter.

I think a good reason not to give a second theme was that the game is supposed to work also without using themes and feats. If a class had more themes/feats than the others, then not using them would mean that some classes would lose more than others.

 

[Jack99]

This new mechanic sounds very promising. I also like that you give up damage instead of to hit.

I like it. I thought I had missed the part where it said "per day" or "per encounter," so I checked again and it's per round. Sick.

My only Fighter-related concern now is that this adds complexity to the class that's supposed to be the simplest one. I guess it's still fine (you can just use your CS dice for damage every round), but it does add more fiddly round-to-round decision making, which is starting to sound like the minor action thing all over again.

All in all, looks good, will have to test to see.

But I'm sad that they're not doing the two themes thing. I wanted a dual-wielding magic-user fighter.

I like it.

Its a simple mechanic that can evolve into something more complicated for those who want it.

For the ultra-simple oldschool fighter-vibe, it would be simple to agree on taking the average of whichever die the fighter currently have and add that as a static bonus.

 

[Grydan]

My initial reaction is that I quite like it. Giving the fighter some actual choices to make, but still allowing them to take the simple option (roll it as damage) seems to preserve the best of both worlds there.

However, my reaction is tempered by two things.

One, it will require careful balancing on WotC's part to make sure that the things one can spend these dice on are worth spending dice on. Additional options aren't really worth having if they all suck worse than the default. I'm not saying that they cannot or will not make the effort, but it's something they'll have to watch.

Two, while this addresses my concern about the fighter lacking any real choices to make during combat, it does absolutely nothing about my concern that the fighter lacks any class specific mechanics or benefits that are in any way useful in non-combat situations.

Wizard and Cleric magic has combat and non-combat uses. Rogues get class features that are combat specific (sneak attack), but that's in addition to a boatload of features that have both combat and non-combat applications. In both cases (spell selection and rogue scheme selection), you have some degree of choice as to what out-of-combat benefits your class gives you, completely separate from whatever you gain from background and theme. The fighter currently gives you a choice between squat and bupkis.

 

[Minigiant]

I like it.

It can stay simple (boost the size of the dice) or get complex (increase the uses for the dice).

It is unique. The fighter can point to something they have that no one can replicate.

Boosting or dice pools are used in many games. I think it's a fine game mechanic. I just don't know why it needs to be unique to the fighter... Why couldn't a wizard use his dice pool to boost the damage of his magic missile or the defensive benefit of his shield spell, or the area of his fireball? Why couldn't the Cleric use it to boost the amount of healing, the bonus of his shield of faith, or increase the targets of his turn undead?

Wizards not being able to do it by default make sense in my logic. Arcane magic is too formulaic and rigid for most wizards to be able to modify. And Divine magic is created by the deities, the divine classes merely channel it.

But fighters actually understand their craft and can adjust it on the fly.

I love it.

 

[the Jester]

Very cool. I really like the sounds of this.

 

[Stasis_Delirium]

I personally like the idea. I can see it expanding out into other options that aren't just numerical. Burning a dice to make an extra opportunity attack against a second opponent breaking away to attack the mage, for instance, can give a very 'tank' feel to the fighter without specifically pushing the fighter into that role.

Suddenly fighters are starting to feel more like a class that a player has to define the role for, instead of having the game define it for them. I'm looking forward to trying this out.

I'm a little hopeful that if it does pan out, it could find its way into other classes in different ways. Rogues getting that dodge dice for instance, or wizards/clerics/spellcasters in some meaningful way (though spellcasters already get a ton of utility from spells alone).