D&D 5E And Lo, the Fighter Did Get a Shtick of his Own... COMBAT SUPERIORITY!

[I'm A Banana]

Sorta. There were basically two questions:
1) Daily/Encounter powers vs No Daily/Encounter powers?
2) What *are* the powers?

This answered point (1), and in the way I favor (yay!).
It say very little about (2). What it does suggest is solidly enh/hopefully-only-first-draft.

You see powers, I see 3e feats.

[sblock]
Let's see, a "Combat Superiority" ability that lets the fighter trade their 1d8 damage for an immediate counterattack would look like...
Counterattack (Combat)
Prerequisite: Fighter. BAB +1.
Benefit: When an enemy misses you with a melee attack, you may make an immediate melee attack against that enemy. This attack, and every other attack you make until the end of your next turn, take a -4 penalty on damage.
[/sblock]

I also see what they've been telling us is coming. The playtest fighter is a simple fighter. This module gives fighters the option to trade damage for other things to give them more options and more complexity.

It just really exposes how subjective peoples' stances are.

Regardless, however minor the change is, it's a smart thing if it gets some hold-outs more on board. If all the "We <3 4e's martial powers!" crowd needs to hear is that feats like Power Attack and Expertise are back and better than ever, I can dig it.

 

[Iosue]

Yep. At the end of the day, isn't this just another bonus? I mean, you are adding a number to another number--your sword gets a bonus to attack or damage, for example--so does it really make much difference if that number is +1d4, or +2?

Not at all. It's not just a bonus: it's a bonus I get to vary application of, a bonus I can use to recreate varying 4e awesomeness, such as immediate reactions or defendery ally protection.

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

I can't imagine that it won't say somewhere in the rules, "Hate rolling dice? Use these static modifiers instead!" - at which point you can substitute these Fighter dice (TM - I am totally making special dice for this mechanic) for tokens and BAM you're done.

 

[ferratus]

Yep. At the end of the day, isn't this just another bonus?

It is just another bonus, but you choose the bonus so it matters. Saying "I guard X" or "I use some nimble footwork to make myself slippery", or "I crouch behind my shield to absorb the hits while the cleric flanks him" is still better than saying "I hit him, I hit him, I hit him" over and over.

I still expect feats, themes and a full tactics module to come into play to supplement this, but I can live with this compromise for a more adventure (rather than combat/dungeon crawl) themed game. It is also fairly simple for new players to pick up.

"Woot, I get to roll more dice!" says the player.
"Crap, I have to roll how many dice now?" says the DM.

That's only a problem if you insist that the NPC's and monsters have to use the same rules as PC's. That's a reason that 3e/Pathfinder is the only edition I refuse to DM, because the system expects me to roll up full characters for NPC's that only survived a few rounds after the PC's identified them as an enemy.

 

[Jack99]

Yep. This was my first thought as well when I read L&L today. Sounds very similar DCC RPG's Mighty Deed of Arms.

Biggest difference seems to be that in DCC you both need to hit the AC of the target AND hit a target number with your "action die". Granted, said number isn't very high, at least not to achieve a minimum of success.

 

[Greg K]

The one attempt to do it in D&D (2E's Player's Option: Skills & Powers) died on the vine.

Or it died, because the application sucked.

 

[IronWolf]

Biggest difference seems to be that in DCC you both need to hit the AC of the target AND hit a target number with your "action die". Granted, said number isn't very high, at least not to achieve a minimum of success.

Yeah - good point. The Mighty Deeds can be used for a tremendous amount of creative actions as well.

I am anxious to see the actual rules for combat superiority and see how the two mechanics match up between each other. I like the Mighty Deeds mechanic quite a bit, so it stands to reason I will like this as well.

 

[Viking Bastard]

What's this DCC people keep referring to and how does the The Mighty Deeds mechanic work, exactly?

 

[CleverNickName]

The gap is bigger than you're making it to be. Adding a random element to the system has a bigger effect than a simple modifier, both in the math and psychologically. Not to mention this system allows dice to be be used not only as dice, but also spent as tokens or counters and its still a fairly simple mechanic and easily explained/understood by new players.

I agree with the psychology aspects, but from a game mechanics standpoint there is very little difference. Ultimately, you are adding numbers to a roll...whether those numbers are fixed or random. If the Weapon Specialization feat gave you a +3 bonus to damage rolls with a weapon, or if it gave you +1d6 damage instead, would it really make that much of a difference? In the moment, maybe. In the long run, probably not.

The random element to the system has a bigger effect than a simple modifier, or smaller, depending on the size of the random element vs. the size of the modifier. A +10 bonus will almost always be higher than a +2d6, after all.

Now, psychology reminds us that there is a chance that we could get an 11 or a 12, and some people will gravitate toward that...and psychology makes us forget that there is an equal chance of getting a 1 or a 2 (and that in all likelihood they are going to get a 7.) But man...that rush we get when we DO manage to roll a 12 is going to make us forget all about those ones and twos!

So I agree that rolling dice is more fun than static modifiers. But from a math standpoint, the difference is slight.

 

[IronWolf]

What's this DCC people keep referring to and how does the The Mighty Deeds mechanic work, exactly?

Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG from Goodman Games.

Mighty Deeds is an extra dice that the warrior and dwarf get to roll with their attack. It acts as a to-hit modifier and damage modifier. Plus the character can declare a special action. If the deed die exceeds a 3 or higher the special action goes off.

I talk a bit about it in my closer look at the DCC warrior (about halfway through the post), but the above is the brief rundown.

The Iron Tavern -- The Warrior