Andy Collins: "Most Magic Items in D&D Are Awful"

[Kunimatyu]

I'd agree, though what I'd prefer to see happen in the long run, are rules like the FFZ ones mentioned above, where when a PC levels, they can choose an inherent boost from a small list of abilities that resembles the Big Six. The amount of treasure gained per level goes way down, and all the things you *can* buy/find, etc. are actually interesting and cool, and your character only has a few of them.

In fact, with all the design and development gurus over at WotC, I'm surprised that a rules variant like this hasn't been released already -- it'd satisfy a lot of DMs and players, I think.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Do you have the progression for this?

Kind of. I've adapted it to FFZ's level and statistic progression (you can see examples of it in the thread in my sig), and I've evened out the spread so it happens gradually over the course of your levels, rather than in simple bursts. But, in a simplified form, it can look like this:

Level 1: Nothing
Level 2: +1 Attack and Damage
Level 3: +1 Saves
Level 4: +1 AC and DR
Level 5: +2 Ability Score A
Level 6: Nothing
Level 7: +2 Attack/Damage
Level 8: +2 Saves
Level 9: +2 AC and DR
Level 10: +2 Ability Score B
Level 11: Nothing
Level 12: +3 Attack/Damage
Level 13: +3 Saves
Level 14: +3 AC/DR
Level 15: +4 Ability Score A
Level 16: Nothing
Level 17: +4 Attack/Damage
Level 18: +4 Saves
Level 19: +4 AC/DR
Level 20: +4 Ability Score B
...etc.

These are all inherent to FFZ characters -- there's no items you need to wear to gain these bonuses. They're all Enhancement bonuses. If you go with equivalent item cost, it means that low-level characters are kind of potent (most 2nd-level characters can't afford a +1 weapon, usually), but it evens out pretty quickly (by about 5th level).

 

[Celebrim]

Partly, this just shows to me the problem inherent in making magic items comodities which can be freely sold or purchased at thier value.

Partly this just shows to me just how narrow most DM's campaigns must be if the good stuff basically just means, "What helps me most often in a straight up pitched conflict" Where are the rings of featherfall? The water breathing items? The necklaces of adaptation? The items confering energy resistance? Where are the items that confer flight?

Partly this is just hyberbole. The situation is not nearly so bad as he suggests for the purposes of the article, as I don't believe that lots of other classics are truly gone from the game nor do I believe that the list he presented truly represents a great departure from earlier editions of the game except to the extent that in earlier editions of the game you were much less likely to be able to fill up your slots they way you ideally wanted to. I can remember having 10th and 12th level characters with open slots and weapons not really more powerful than those possessed by 6th and 7th level characters in this edition.

 

[Particle_Man]

Interestingly, both the Iron Heroes game system and the Vow of Poverty within Book of Exalted Deeds have similar "Advancements instead of magic items", although the vow gives you some other cool stuff too.

 

[Sir Elton]

The best magic items are the most flavorful.

After all, who would want the Lamp of the Annoying Djinn! I would, said Djinn would jump to conclusions and tempt me with certain things that I might desire.

How about the Ring of Three Wishes? That's an awesome item!!

Maybe a serpent's ring. How about the Rod of Wonder?

 

[blargney the second]

I love the Design & Development series. I like this particular group of articles about magic items, and think that there are some very good points being raised.

However, I don't like the scathingly negative tone that Andy is using. Hindsight is 20/20, but he's using it to denigrate the work done by himself, his co-workers, and his company. They did the best they could given the information they had at the time. If new data has become available, that doesn't warrant publicly skewering them to promote sales of a new product.

-blarg

 

[jrients]

Most magic items are not awful, but the standard array of items that players will buy or make if they can are boring.

I plan on addressing this in my next campaign by using a les sparsely populated world than the DMG suggests is the standard. No item above 3000gp in value will be available for purchase because no town on the campaign map will be big enough to support more than that. Also I'm going to try very hard to make the items the PCs find to be more interesting than the mechanically optimal stuff they might prefer.

But if a PC takes the right feats and wants to make the same old maguc junk, that's their business.

 

[Greg K]

Celebrim pretty much summed up my reaction to that article

 

[jmucchiello]

Partly, this just shows to me the problem inherent in making magic items comodities which can be freely sold or purchased at thier value.

I've played early editions of D&D in this manner. People had funky items.

Partly this just shows to me just how narrow most DM's campaigns must be if the good stuff basically just means, "What helps me most often in a straight up pitched conflict" Where are the rings of featherfall? The water breathing items? The necklaces of adaptation? The items confering energy resistance?

These cost as much as +2 or +4 to an ability. Which is better occasionally falling and geting a little damage or +2 to hit +2 on damage every attack? Remeber falling damage has not changed but characters have far more hit points than they use to.

Where are the items that confer flight?

Like the spells, all of these items were nerfed.

nor do I believe that the list he presented truly represents a great departure from earlier editions of the game except to the extent that in earlier editions of the game you were much less likely to be able to fill up your slots they way you ideally wanted to.

Actually, in early editions there were no items to easily boost Con, Int, or Cha. The strength items were awesome, put the gauntlet of ogre power on the wizard and he's suddenly as strong as Conan he gets the +3/+6 bonus regardless of not being a fighter. But gauntlets of Dexterity merely boosted a 14+ dex by 1. So the reason they didn't dominate earlier editions is they didn't exist in earlier editions. Again, same as the spell.

 

[DaveMage]

Interesting articles - they sure do reflect the campaigns I've been in.

I'm looking forward to getting the Magic Item Compendium to see how they addressed the issue.