Annoying Conspiricy Thread

[LeaderDesslok]

Hi all,

This may have been discussed before, or not. It's not intended as an attack, just an observation. The title of the thread is a little silly, but apropos, as you will soon see....(wait for it)...

Is Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro trying to get out of paying any royalties to the Gygax Estate for Dungeons & Dragons?

I don't even know if they owed him anything in the first place, but this is my evidence/deluded ramblings:

* Advanced D&D (the 1st edition) was created to squeeze Dave Arneson out of the D&D money pie. It was argued that the rules and name were significantly different such that AD&D was not a derivative of Dungeons & Dragons.

* 4E comes out and contains a rules system that is radically different from from any edition that came before it. In other words, it could be argued that it is not a derivative work.

* 4E has completely eliminated any references to the world of Greyhawk. Not only is it not listed as an early campaign setting, but all IP that used to appear in the core rules (i.e., Mordenkainen, Bigby, etc.) has been eliminated. Gary Gygax is known as the creator of the world of Greyhawk.

* In the GSL, section 5.2 (Licensed Products Legal Text), no mention is made of any version of Dungeons & Dragons prior to 4E, nor does it attribute any portion of the rules to Gary Gygax (and Dave Arneson).

I've seen earlier threads that angrily point out that Greyhawk has been dissed by Wizards of the Coast. I think it's worse than that.

My argument: Wizards of the Coast (and by extension Hasbro) intends to cut the Gygax Estate out of any royalties they may have been entitled to for the Dungeons & Dragons brand.

Discuss.

 

[Rechan]

Scott Rouse and Rupert Murdock had a baby, intent on destroying the one last thing that we hold dear: D&D.

Also, Chris Perkins is secretly David Carradine.

 

[Glyfair]

* 4E has completely eliminated any references to the world of Greyhawk. Not only is it not listed as an early campaign setting, but all IP that used to appear in the core rules (i.e., Mordenkainen, Bigby, etc.) has been eliminated. Gary Gygax is known as the creator of the world of Greyhawk.

Not quite true. Keoghtom has a reference with Keoghtom's Ointment still being in the rules (and I believe there was at least one other Greyhawk artifact floating around).

Also the books are dedicated to Gygax.

There is a good basis for a ripping conspiracy theory, though. Not quite up there with "Paul is Dead."

 

[Lord Xtheth]

It kinda makes sence on a certain level.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

It kinda makes sence on a certain level.

Since it wouldn't do what he alleges it would do, if it were true, no, it really doesn't make any sort of sense.

 

[Piratecat]

It kinda makes sence on a certain level.

No. No, it doesn't.

 

[PapersAndPaychecks]

I understand Gary wasn't receiving any royalties from 3e, so I doubt any would be due on 4e.

In the GSL, section 5.2 (Licensed Products Legal Text), no mention is made of any version of Dungeons & Dragons prior to 4E, nor does it attribute any portion of the rules to Gary Gygax (and Dave Arneson).

Now that's a bit disrespectful, really.

 

[LeaderDesslok]

Not quite true. Keoghtom has a reference with Keoghtom's Ointment still being in the rules (and I believe there was at least one other Greyhawk artifact floating around).

Also the books are dedicated to Gygax.

There is a good basis for a ripping conspiracy theory, though. Not quite up there with "Paul is Dead."

Just because they dedicate the book to Gygax doesn't mean they want to shell out cash to his estate. You can respect a person and still not deal with him.

By the way, if you read the Players Handbook backwards you will find the words "no money for Gary" repeated many times.

I didn't know aboutthe Keoghtum thing, but I also haven't got my books yet. I'm relying on the SRD and second-hand knowledge from the interwebs. Just lik any self-prespecting conspiricy theorist would.

 

[haakon1]

My argument: Wizards of the Coast (and by extension Hasbro) intends to cut the Gygax Estate out of any royalties they may have been entitled to for the Dungeons & Dragons brand.

Discuss.

I'm pretty sure Gary and family weren't getting a dime after he got kicked out by the Bad Lady whose name I forget.

Anyhow, it's a shame there are no more references to Greyhawk and that there's so little respect for the game's traditions.

It's like if Major League Baseball switched to broadcasting women in bikinis on a sandy beach knocking a big inflatible ball back and forth over a net. Still a fun sport to watch, but not the same, and leaving behind any importance for Ty Cobb, Jackie Robinson, etc. as new generations had new definitions for strike out, etc. and assumed "Babe Ruth" was someone completely different!

I'm glad Keoghtom's Ointment is still there. Gary said it was named after a friend of his -- Tom Keough. I believe the story was that Tom was a boyhood friend of Gary's who died young, thus the cure anything substance named for him. Super cool stuff like that BELONGS in whatever is being called D&D.

 

[PapersAndPaychecks]

I'm pretty sure Gary and family weren't getting a dime after he got kicked out by the Bad Lady whose name I forget.

He wasn't getting his salary from TSR but immediately after Lorraine Williams kicked him out, Gary was still entitled to royalties.

Which, cynical people have suggested, might have been the reason for 2e. I don't believe that personally. I think Zeb Cook was genuinely trying to clean up and improve the game--whether or not he succeeded is another discussion.