Another "Magic breaks the economy" thread

[Greenfield]

I was looking over the spells in Sandstorm, since we have a Duskblade who just took a PRC from there, and spotted one that made my DM's instincts rear up and take notice.

Transmute Flesh to Salt is similar to the classic Flesh to Stone spell, but it does some damage. If (and only if) you do more than 1/2 the target's current hit points, then they have to make a Fort save or be turned to salt.

Per the SRD and PHB, Salt is listed in "Trade goods" at 5 gp per pound, or about the same price as silver.

So a 200 lb man falls to this spell, he effectively turns into treasure, approximately 1,000 gp worth.

Worse: Party gets attacked by anything on the Large or larger size. They kill it. Now the caster hits it with the spell. By definition, since it has no hit points left, he's doing more than half. )Do dead things even get Fort saves?)

Even allowing the Fort save for the dead thing, there's nothing to keep said Duskblade from zapping it again, and again if need be. Large creatures usually weigh in at about 800 lbs if they're humanoid. That's 4k in salt.

Larger things start coming in the multi-ton range.

So I think I'll rename that one as "Transmute monster to treasure" and be done with it.

 

[Jack Simth]

I was looking over the spells in Sandstorm, since we have a Duskblade who just took a PRC from there, and spotted one that made my DM's instincts rear up and take notice.

Transmute Flesh to Salt is similar to the classic Flesh to Stone spell, but it does some damage. If (and only if) you do more than 1/2 the target's current hit points, then they have to make a Fort save or be turned to salt.

Per the SRD and PHB, Salt is listed in "Trade goods" at 5 gp per pound, or about the same price as silver.

So a 200 lb man falls to this spell, he effectively turns into treasure, approximately 1,000 gp worth.

Worse: Party gets attacked by anything on the Large or larger size. They kill it. Now the caster hits it with the spell. By definition, since it has no hit points left, he's doing more than half. )Do dead things even get Fort saves?)

Even allowing the Fort save for the dead thing, there's nothing to keep said Duskblade from zapping it again, and again if need be. Large creatures usually weigh in at about 800 lbs if they're humanoid. That's 4k in salt.

Larger things start coming in the multi-ton range.

So I think I'll rename that one as "Transmute monster to treasure" and be done with it.

Read the fine print in the spell: Does it also alter the subject's equipment?

That could be a rather big loss of loot... but if you want to break it, just buy Mules. They're 8 GP each, and are Large creatures with only 22 HP and a +6 Fort save.

But yes, lots of ways to make money easily in D&D. The classic is Wall of Iron (also a trade good). Fabricate is also a way to break things.

 

[am181d]

Uhhhhh....

I think you're missing the big picture. The point of salt is TO EAT IT. If you start selling people salt that used to be PEOPLE, they will not be happy when they find out.

And what happens if someone DISPELS the spell???

Plus, what happens if you eat a salted herring salted with pit fiend salt???

I'm reminded of Marvel Comics' THE SKULL KILL KREW. At the end of FANTASTIC FOUR #3, a bunch of shape-shifting Skrulls were trapped in the shape of cows. The members of THE SKULL KILL KREW were ordinary people who gained weird powers when they ate the tainted Skrull-beef. They got Mad Cow, Marvel-style.

 

[cjosephs1s]

Reread the spell more carefully. It turns into a statue of rock salt (not quite the same as what we use to salt our food..close but not quite and therefore not as valuable either). Also the players would have to take the time to process the body into a useable form by grinding it all up into tiny particles and would probably need a profession (saltworker???) check to do it and then you could use the profession rules to determine how much salt they grind into a useable product to sell. So while its "free" salt it still won't destroy your economy. Just probably give them enough gold to not worry about upkeep costs such as inns, food, and repairs.

 

[airwalkrr]

Just because the monster turns into salt does not mean that the player characters would be able to sell it. Just because flesh to stone turns a monster into a statue does not mean that the player characters would be able to sell it either.

If it really bothers you, then simply referee that for whatever reason (quality of salt, danger of being transformed back to flesh form, etc.) the market price is equal to the expected treasure one might gain from defeating a creature of the appropriate CR. Treasure is earned, not exploited through cheap tricks.

 

[Greenfield]

I might have missed it, but I don't recall seeing a "Transmute Salt to Flesh" spell. I'll look again. If there isn't then there really isn't any ready way to turn it back. The ability of Break Enchantment to reverse Petrification has already been tossed out as a bad example. That leaves things like Disjunction as just about the only option.

I think I'll refer to the product as "blood salt", and offer the ruling that it would need to be purified, the same way salt-bearing rock would be. Extensive process, lot's of work, lots of water needed, etc.

I'm not the only DM at the table, so I don't get to make "final" rulings, but this one looks like a no-brainer. You can't go minting money quite that blatantly.

 

[Greenfield]

Reread the spell more carefully. It turns into a statue of rock salt (not quite the same as what we use to salt our food..close but not quite and therefore not as valuable either). Also the players would have to take the time to process the body into a useable form by grinding it all up into tiny particles and would probably need a profession (saltworker???) check to do it and then you could use the profession rules to determine how much salt they grind into a useable product to sell. So while its "free" salt it still won't destroy your economy. Just probably give them enough gold to not worry about upkeep costs such as inns, food, and repairs.

The only difference between rock salt and table salt is how finely it's ground. Good old Sodium Chloride, NaCl. Nose-in-the-air types (such as some of my family members) have salt grinders that get loaded with rock salt. As if getting it "fresh" was similar to fresh ground pepper.

But finely, evenly ground salt is a modern convenience, a product of the industrial age. So having a salt grinder of your own wouldn't be unusual. For cooking purposes, there's no difference between an ounce of fine ground salt and a one-ounce lump of rock salt.

 

[am181d]

I might have missed it, but I don't recall seeing a "Transmute Salt to Flesh" spell. I'll look again. If there isn't then there really isn't any ready way to turn it back. The ability of Break Enchantment to reverse Petrification has already been tossed out as a bad example. That leaves things like Disjunction as just about the only option.

"A Stone to Flesh spell affects salt as if it were stone, returning an affected
creature to its original state."

And here's the text of Break Enchantment from the SRD, which looks like it would work too:

"This spell frees victims from enchantments, transmutations, and curses. Break enchantment can reverse even an instantaneous effect... If the spell is one that cannot be dispelled by dispel magic, break enchantment works only if that spell is 5th level or lower."

Since Flesh to Salt is a 5th level instantaneous transmutation, it looks like it's exactly the sort of effect that BE is meant to be able to dispel.

And, again, YOU'RE TURNING PEOPLE INTO SALT WITH AN INTENT TO SELL THEM AS A FOOD ADDITIVE!

 

[Tomn]

Preserving meat

Just think of the possibilities for meat preservation! Not only could you preserve meat in salt form, but you could then use that meat to preserve other meat through salting!

 

[Hassassin]

"A Stone to Flesh spell affects salt as if it were stone, returning an affected
creature to its original state."

Then again, that should mean you can make normal salt turn to flesh as well.

And, again, YOU'RE TURNING PEOPLE INTO SALT WITH AN INTENT TO SELL THEM AS A FOOD ADDITIVE!

Or cows.