Another "second-guess the paladin" thread

[DiFier]

we've been in a long running Freeport campaign, starting with this module. things were slightly different, we started out as members of the Freeport Watch (made up by the DM as a city guard). There was an inside joke that a paladin wouldn't last too long in freeport. it will be interisting to see how long you last. I don't think that you broke your code but I think you were pushing it.

 

[FireLance]

I believe your actions were within the bounds of acceptable behavior for a paladin, but perhaps not the best you could have done.

It would probably have been better to leave them in a safer location. The idea of holding court, or explaining to them their crimes and giving them the chance to say a word in mitigation, is a good one. Of course, it may not have been practical in the circumstances.

Consistent brutality may become an issue, though. Perhaps you should give those mercy muscles a bit of stretch now and then.

 

[Celtavian]

re

I would have killed them both for attempted murder. If you have no place to imprison them and there is no proper law, then you should have pronounced sentence and finished off the murders, especially if you had detected the taint of evil upon them.

You were rather kind IMO. You broke only his hand as lesson rather than taking his head as was your right for defeating a foe in combat. This isn't modern times. If you defeat a foe in combat, then you have every right to finish him off. His life is in your hands. That is honor. That is justice.

Kudos to you for being kind. Maybe next time he'll think of the ache in his hand before he agrees to a contract to murder someone.

 

[Turanil]

So, what do you think of this action?

IMO: your paladin acted as a paladin should in such circumstances. A paladin is a warrior, not a non-violent healer sort of character. Then, in that situation it is the most appropriate things he could do. I think that the NPCs got a good lesson (if they catch them) about their evil ways. Other characters would have killed them without a second thought.

 

[Torm]

I was watching over your character's actions, of course, and I saw no problem with your conduct. The swordsman hand can be healed - magically or otherwise - and the time it takes to get that done will give him time to rethink himself. You left them in an alley, and not in the broad open, and perhaps if they are victims of a misjustice in the night and live to tell, they will begin to see that justice is important. The only things I can see that you could have done better would have been to summon the authorities - its important that such men see that SOMEONE expects that they do their duty, or perhaps, short of that, to have held a drumhead. (But I have to admit, I mostly suggest this because I'm a sucker for a well-handled court proceding.)

You can tell your DM and party members that you have it from Torm Himself that you did well enough and that I have an eye on the mage and swordsman, and show them a printout, if necessary. (Of course, if they won't accept the honorable word of one of my paladins, THEY may be gathering my attention - and not in a healthy way.) And, if the Overgod (your DM) allows, I Bless thee, good paladin.

Your buddy,
Torm

 

[Quasqueton]

Well, what more needs to be said on behalf of my paladin? Torm himself has responded. Thanks much big guy.


And to respond to the several comments by many in this thread: Leaving them in the ally was not an act of malice. They were not tied up and left for predators. I would think they have a better chance of survival where we left them than they would if we left them where we fought them.

Quasqueton

 

[Raven Crowking]

Quas,

I have been DMing since Christmas of 1979. I wouldn't have any problem with your actions at my table. Indeed, I would go out of my way to later stage an encounter, months or years hence, that rewarded your act of mercy -- even if the swordsman's hand didn't heal properly. Especially if not. Your attackers got off lighter, I am sure, than you would have had they triumphed, and a mangled hand (again, assuming natural healing, and assuming that nature is imperfect) is a small price if it sets the fellow on the path of a good (or better) life.

Imagine if the PCs were the thugs who ambushed a paladin and his group in a lawless town. What would the DM have the NPC paladin do? I fear that the NPC paladin would be far less lenient than you.

Daniel

 

[Eccles]

Sounds like the paladin's lament. Which is so often unanswered.

Speak to your DM, as about 20 people have already said.

My solution in the same place in the same game was to threaten to stick the captive on a ship going out to sea, so that could have a few years of hard labour to consider his wrongdoings.

The DM told me that if I did this, I was aiding and abetting the slave trade and would lose my paladinhood.

Grin and bear it. It's the price you pay for the detecting of the evil .

 

[Calico_Jack73]

I think the Paladin did the right thing. Lawful Good does NOT mean Lawful Stupid (yes, that phrase has been thrown around alot on this board). Per Col Pladoh (Gary Gygax) a Paladin might slay an evil doer after they confess their sins so that their souls might pass on to a good plane rather than allow them to take up their evil ways again. Merely temporarily crippling someone makes your Paladin seem to be a saint when compared to Gygax's view on appropriate Paladin conduct.
I watched a special on the History Channel this weekend that was about torture as punishment (Modern Marvels) and it is amazing that it is only relatively recently that torture has been outlawed. The Vatican didn't officially abolish the Inquisition or their methods until the late 1800's. Tasers and stun belts which are seen as mercy weapons are particularly agonizing yet in our own society using a taser on someone is seen as a preferred alternative to shooting and killing a criminal. On the special they showed footage of volunteer police officers being subjected to a stun belt and a taser and I never had any idea of how agonizing it really was. It is enough to cause people to lose total control of their bodies and defecate and urinate on themselves. I personally cannot imagine that kind of agony.
Really (and I hope not to weird anyone out here) for the majority of history torture has been seen as a good alternative to incarceration in a prison. You punish someone with agonizing pain and then release them instead of throwing them into prison for years and years which costs quite a bit of money.

Anyway, given the medieval fantasy scope of most D&D games I'd imagine that the justice system would be similar to our own during the medieval period with torture being a accepted method of punishment. Given that the crime of the NPCs was attempted murder I think your Paladin went a little light on them.

Edit: [rant] Another thing... your character "Code of Conduct" is between you and your DM. Your fellow players need to "butt-out" and quit judging your character's actions. I have ALWAYS hated the fact that other players take it upon themselves to become the jury of my Paladin's actions. What my character does is not truely their business. It is between me and the DM... THAT'S IT!!! [/rant]

 

[Quasqueton]

I really did not start this thread as any kind of complaint or lament about my DM or my fellow Players. I don't need to talk with my DM about my paladin's code because we have discussed it, and we are not at odds about it. As I said, the DM did not punish my paladin or give me *any* problem with the situation.

My posting here was merely for discussion. My DM reads this board, as do a couple of the Players. I didn't make the original post as a complaint, but many of the responses has made me think it reads as a complaint. My DM was actually the one to first mention posting it on ENWorld as a discussion starter.

The situation was interesting, and the various responses to the situation at our game table were interesting. I thought it would make for an interesting discussion on this forum -- and it has been interesting to see the various takes on how a paladin could/should have handled the situation.

Quasqueton