D&D 3E/3.5 Another "Wish" question. 3.5.

[Sekhmet]

I have a player who wants to bend the rules slightly with PrC requisites. I'm not 100% sure he actually wants to do this, or if he just wants to know if it is possible, and you guys seem a pretty reasonable source of that information, since I want a second opinion.

I'll just get to it already.

Assume a level 17 Wizard has access to Wish, or even a 13th level Wizard that has access to Limited Wish.

With any PrC that has a requirement of "must be able to cast X spell" or "must be able to cast X level divine spells", etc, could the Limited Wish or Wish fulfill that requisite, as it does allow a Wizard of sufficient level to cast that spell, albeit as a 7th or 9th level spell, respectively?

As a DM, I want to say that he should follow the intention of the books and not the literal translation, but I am torn, because I also want to say that it is quite fine; due to the increased cost (considering you would generally not need to be a level 13 or 17 to undertake a PrC).

 

[Dandu]

No, it should not be allowed.

 

[DumbPaladin]

Think of it this way:

With a very lucky roll, a level 6 Wizard with 20 Int and a caster level of 6 actually has a chance to cast Wish from a scroll. He needs to beat a caster level check with a DC of 18 to beat it (assuming minimum caster level for scrolls, which is standard according to the DMG), so d20 + 6.

If he rolls a 13 or better, that level 2 Wizard gets a Wish.

Would you allow that character to qualify for a PrC that needs such-and-such spell as a prerequisite?

 

[Jhaelen]

I have a player who wants to bend the rules slightly with PrC requisites.

Welcome to ENWorld and welcome to DM's call land!

The thing is, in 3e the wish spell does not allow bending any rules. Its description is very explicit in what it can do and there's nothing in the description to indicate it can break any rules.
It hints, that a DM may allow it to have a more powerful effect than the example effects, but it still doesn't say, it should be allowed to bend any rules.

Being able to replicate a divine spell with a wish is something different from having the spell on your spell list. Unless you feel a wish spell should allow a wizard to add a divine spell to his spell list, it will not work.

But it's really up to you. If you feel the effect is something that a wish should be able to grant, go for it.

Personally, I'm very strict in these things. The RBDM in me suggests, someone wishing to be able to add a divine spell to his spell list should have his class changed to a divine class.

If I was your player, I'd rather look for ways to achieve it within the rules. E.g. there are feats which can grant an arcane caster access to divine spells or he might simply take levels in a divine class.

 

[DumbPaladin]

I totally agree that it is 100% your call as DM ... but I think some of the people on here could come up with scenarios that would make you regret opening this particular can of worms...

 

[bobhayes]

it depends...

To fulfill a prerequisite, you must have the ability, power, spell etc. as part of your normal build. For example, if a (3.5E) barbarian has a strength of 18 and can rage for another 4, he is not eligible for a PrC that has a minimum strength requirement of 22. If the PrC requires you to have the Deflect Arrows feat, you cannot fulfill that by buying a magic item that grants you access to the feat - you have to actually have the feat.

This question, however, is about access to a specific spell. A PrC like "mystic theurge" requires the character "be able to cast 2nd level divine spells". The Wish would not meet this requirement IMO, it's too general. A PrC where the requirement is "be able to cast Control Winds [drd 5]", the Wish WOULD be good enough. You can do that specific one thing via the Wish.

There's no real balance question. PrC class designers who want you to have to do it the hard way can. "Be a 9th level druid or higher" is a perfectly valid prerequisite.

 

[Sekhmet]

Thanks for all your input, the general consensus seems to be "No." Although there was a mention of "X divine spell" being added to a Wizard's spell list through means of a Wish, which would allow the Wizard to cast a divine spell without any other assistance for the rest of his career, which would qualify for PrC's.

Again, thanks for the input. I'll go back to lurking and learning, now.

 

[TanisFrey]

Only if it is a wizard spell he is trying to cast. He then wish a scroll with that spell into existence, learn it, scribe it into his spell book. Then and only then does he qualify for the PrC.

 

[pawsplay]

No. Prerequisites need to be stable, relatively permanent abilities. I don't even allow Precocious Apprentice to work for 2nd level prereqs, although that one could go either way.

 

[radmod]

We have always had (since 1e) three types of wishes (not RAW):
1) Wish - the way it's written in the books, plus. The 'plus' is based on the greed of the character, the greedier the less likely the wish.
2) Fate Wish (e.g. Monkey's Paw) - you may get exactly what you wished for but it always turns out bad. Do you know how much damage 100,000gps falling on a character does?
3) God Wish - a wish given by a extremely powerful divine being. It allowed you to alter a single rule (within relative reason) in the books. For example, God Wishes have been used to allow a PC never to have to sleep, never be surprised, or triple-class (back when you couldn't).
I've kept these variations to this day.