Answers on the GSL!

[smetzger]

Borrowing ideas is almost never a problem. Happens all the time in many media, regardless of a license or not. Unless an idea is so novel it was patented (which admittedly that may happen in cases where it shouldn't) you're free to use an idea and build on it. Copyright might prevent you from copying the text of an idea word for word, but there are prior cases that have been mentioned here lately that support borrowing or using other's rules, assuming you don't copy text. Even copying is ok to a limited degree in certain circumstances. Ask a lawyer (I'm not) first, or course.

Yes, thats true.

But it used to be very easy to lift a feat, spell, class or whatever from another publication. Now its not so easy. Thats my point. Not that it can't be done. Just that the fence is higher now, and people are lazy so they may just not re-use but will re-invent.

We will have to see the license. But maybe the 3PP group can come up with an addendum that won't violate the license, but will allow re-use.

 

[Fifth Element]

Can't help but notice that this thread has averaged about 16 posts per day, while the previous rampant-doomsaying-speculation thread had about 66 per day.

 

[Vigilance]

This is one of the big steps backward that is really bothersome.

Sure, WotC would be "stupid" to go after fan sites. That is the conventional wisdom. It is probably even safe to assume that they won't.

But the fact of the matter is that they could. With the OGL, there was a way to safely publish your thoughts and ideas on the web for your game group, or whatever.

All it takes is a shift in policy to change and WotC could go after fan sites. Sure, it might foster bad relations. But there is nothing stopping them from trying that.

Technically under the OGL, Wizards could go after everyone who posts on ENW who posts rules without appending an appropriate license to their post.

Including a complete Section 15 for everyone's work cited in their post!

All it takes is a shift in policy and Wizards could start going after these poor souls tomorrow.

I for one am really concerned about this.

Oi freaking vey

Chuck

 

[DaveMage]

Can't help but notice that this thread has averaged about 16 posts per day, while the previous rampant-doomsaying-speculation thread had about 66 per day.

Oh, don't worry - I'm sure that when June 6 comes around there will be plenty of doomsaying posts - it just won't be speculation anymore.

 

[smetzger]

Technically under the OGL, Wizards could go after everyone who posts on ENW who posts rules without appending an appropriate license to their post.

Including a complete Section 15 for everyone's work cited in their post!

All it takes is a shift in policy and Wizards could start going after these poor souls tomorrow.

I for one am really concerned about this.

Oi freaking vey

Chuck

eh, very much agree that they will not go after a forum.

But what about a site that posts all the open content, or whatever its going to be called?
What about a site that creates a random NPC generator that is way better than WOTCs, and everyone uses it?
What if someone creates something better than the the digital initiative and WOTC gaming table?

What is a fan site? Is EN World a fansite? Or is EN world a publishing company?

IMO, if you post articles or rules on your site and its possible to use the GSL for those articles or rules you might as well use it.

Unfortunately, there are lots of interesting and community useful things that will probably not be allowed under the GSL.
What will WOTC do about character generators and other programs online? What if WOTCs electronic stuff is good(and they want to charge $10/month) but your is comparable and you offer it for free?
What about conversions of previous D&D edition material?

What if 100 people get together and decide to convert Eberon and they don't want to use WOTCs DDI to post here information (which would give WOTC rights to everything they posted)? What if tis conversion is really good, freely available, and ready months before the WOTC book?

Just a lot of what ifs, and potential for WOTC and fans to have rift since WOTC has not supplied specific guidelines.

 

[Piratecat]

What is a fan site? Is EN World a fansite? Or is EN world a publishing company?

EN World is a fan site. EN Publishing, a separate entity, is a publishing company.

 

[jmucchiello]

EN World is a fan site. EN Publishing, a separate entity, is a publishing company.

That distinction is not as crystal clear as you guys try to make it out to be. I (me, myself) know you run them separately and all that. But it's not really obvious from the outside. Where is the ENPublishing website? With separate trade dress and product announcements? Ever other publisher announces new products on their website and in ENWorld press releases. ENPub gets automatic special new placement on the homepage (and that article always looks suspiciously like what a product page on any other pub's website would look like).

Look at the announcement for book 3 of Ascension on the homepage. Compare it to Friday's news item about CMG's Small Keep. If ENWorld and ENPub were truly separate, the news item for Ascensions would have been:
[bq]EN Publishing released {link}Ascension{/link} the third and final novel in Aeryn "Blackdirge" Rudel's Metamorphosis: From Dretch to Demon Lord trilogy.[/bq]
And the link would point to the ENPub homepage.

There's nothing wrong with ENPub getting special privilige on ENWorld's news page. But it blurs the separaion between the two entities.

 

[Voadam]

EN World is a fan site. EN Publishing, a separate entity, is a publishing company.

I think he was referring to whether some stuff on EN World would make it a publishing company instead of just a fansite exclusively, such as the 3e house rules stuff, the 4e original creations stuff, the 4e rules document, the 4e original monster booklet, etc.

If someone created a 4e Eberron conversion document on ENWorld and created 4e versions of things like dragon marks or artificers or shifters would that push things differently?

 

[smetzger]

Actually my point is that unlike the GSL (from what we know) has lots of areas that are not covered (unlike the OGL) thus producing uncertainty.

There is not clear definition of a 'fan site' so it cannot afford special protection.

My biggest complaints are...
No interactive software
No built in license for others to use the stuff you create (e.g. OGC). Hopefully the license will not be written in such a way that precludes allowing this.

 

[DanMcS]

Technically under the OGL, Wizards could go after everyone who posts on ENW who posts rules without appending an appropriate license to their post.

No, they can't. Quoting from a copyrighted work can be fair use. RPGs are (obviously) copyrighted works.

From that link, you can see that the four main factors for determining whether copying some copyrighted work is fair use are:
a) whether the copying is commercial
b) whether you are copying facts or creative work
c) the amount of copying compared to the size of the work
d) the effect of the copying on sale of the work

Quoting a rule for purposes of discussion is noncommercial.
A rule is a fact (and rules themselves are not copyrightable anyway, only the expression of the rule is).
A single rule is a tiny fraction of the whole work.
And, particularly when quoting from the SRD, it can't hurt the sale of the work, because the work is free from the original publisher.

Further, the following uses have been recognized at various times as fair use:
criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, research and parodies.

Discussing the rules of a game arguably falls under several of those. Whether discussing it is a parody depends on how bad the original game was, I suppose.

Discussing a game online, including quoting rules from it, is fair use, whether that came is licensed under the OGL, the GSL, or not available for license at all.