Any Dungeon World players here?

[chaochou]

I've run far, far more Apocalypse World than I have Dungeon World, so any answers will be from a general understanding of the principles far more than the letter of the book.

I've not even had a game of DW using the Druid so the initial questions require me to do some reading. A few ideas to start, though.

Under Studied Essence it says that, “if you spend time in contemplation of an animal's spirit” you can add that animal to the list of animals you can shift into. It's in bold letters in the book. Does that mean that contemplating an animal's spirit is a move? And what exactly does it mean to “study an animal's spirit?” Is that just studying the animal?

'Contemplating an animal's spirit' is not a book-defined thing which players conform to in order to get bennies. It's an evocative piece of language designed to draw a response from the player and the group. This is an area where games like DW diverge heavily from traditional rpgs.

Working out what it really means to 'contemplate an animal's spirit' - delving into that question of being, essence, spirit, the fundamental nature of life and existence - that's what it means to be a druid.

The key here is that it's not a question with an answer in a book or on a forum - it's a question designed to prompt a creative process, of which you and your group are the only meaningful authors.

Elemental Spirit states, “When you call on the primal spirits of fire, water, earth, or air to perform a task for you roll...”

What does that even mean? Can you cause earthquakes? Floods? Raging fires? Wind storms? I'm assuming that's the case, but there's absolutely no clarification here. And furthermore, on a miss, some catastrophe occurs. That last bit is followed by three bullet points that, at first, I assumed were the seeds of the potential catastrophe, but they're all pretty positive things.

The effect you desire comes to pass
You avoid paying nature's price
You retain control

This is a common theme throughout the *World Games.

Again, the answers are not in the book. The answers are in your group. If you notice, on a 10+ choose 2. On a 7-9 choose 1. So, yes, you can summon an earthquake to collapse a tunnel...

...but even on a 10+ if you choose the desired effect (collapsed tunnel) you can then only choose 1 of avoiding paying a price or retaining control. Which means you either lose control... or the spirits of the earth demand something in return...

Because in these kind of 'faustian pact' moves, it is implicit that as part of the outcome the unchosen option is used to create new, dramatic, entertaining and real consequences. This is where the MC earns their keep, innovating and improvising, adding a new layer of consequences over the player's actions. No-one plays with Elemental Spirits for free...

 

[CubicsRube]

[MENTION=85870]innerdude[/MENTION] absolutely right. It will never appeal to tactical players as there isnt enough crunch and it all comes down to narrative justification.

It works well as a narrative game, and i tend to lean more towards that, hiwever even i wish there were rules for things sometimes, such as movement and positioning.

But because it is so different, it can be a great break away from trad games for a few short sessions. Dw works great for a one shot or short campaign.

 

[cthulhu42]

I'm running a dw campaign at the moment, so happy to answer any questions.

Youve probably heard it mentioned, but some things dont click until you play the game. The dynamic is also very different such as a free flowing cinematic style of initiative. It takes you out of your comfort zone (at least it did with me!) But its not as hard as it seems once you practice a bit

Actually one of the things that drew me to DW was the lack of initiative. It takes a bit of getting used to, but in the one session we played I got comfortable with it pretty fast. My players are not so sure, but they did agree that combat was much, MUCH faster than D&D, and there was very little time spent by players waiting for their turns. They're a pretty open minded group, so I don't see this as a big problem.

 

[cthulhu42]

So, as to druids. It is confusing and highlights a lot of things in dungeon world where its really really important to ask questions to your players. Once those things are defined, then it sets a precedent.

The first element is that druida need to choose a wilderness type and generally can only change into creatures from that area. If you want to confirm with the player if you mean natural creaturees only or monsters as well you can. You can leave the choice up to them, or you can override, as your still the gm.

So would you recommend letting them shift into monsters? The idea of letting the 1st level druid shift into a dragon seems counterintuative, but I'm trying to let go of all my preconceived notions of traditional RPGs, so maybe it would be ok. Most of the time she's only going to get 2 moves, and while those moves are pretty powerful, there's still only two of them. (three if she gets a really good roll).

An example of what you could ask the player is, "what happens when you transform? What does it look like? What does it feel like?" And my favourite "what happens when it goes wrong?". This goes on to establish risk which ill talk about in next post as this is getting too long already

I've thought a bit about the question of just what the transformation looks like and how long it should take. I kind of like the idea of it being similar to a wearwolf transformation as portrayed in movies, where it is kind of a gruesome and painful process. I've also that forms larger or smaller than more or less medium sized creatures could take a bit longer, which would mitigate the power of shifting into that dragon. Any thoughts on that?

 

[cthulhu42]

CubicsRube;7369164]Back to the swallow hole move. You always establish risks before the roll and the player can decide if they want to do ot. Sometimes the risk can be small, depending on how you want to push the player.

If they wanted to swallow a goblin you could say "sure, but if you fail the roll, he'll be able to jab you in the side and he'll deal you damage. Or "sure, but if you fail, youll hit that nearby arch and damge your mouth so you wont be able to swallow anything again for a while" or "sure, and you'll definately swallow him, but if you fail, youll swallow him whole and he'll keep attacking you again and again until he finally succumbs to your digestive juices"

So you get to establish the consequences of the failure rathet than it being preset in the rules. Its actually a thing that makes dw hard to run at times, as its demanding of your creativity.

[/QUOTE]

So you're suggesting a roll for the monster move, but I was given to believe that if a druid spends hold to pull off a MM it just happens. No roll.

 

[cthulhu42]

I've run far, far more Apocalypse World than I have Dungeon World, so any answers will be from a general understanding of the principles far more than the letter of the book.

I've not even had a game of DW using the Druid so the initial questions require me to do some reading. A few ideas to start, though.



'Contemplating an animal's spirit' is not a book-defined thing which players conform to in order to get bennies. It's an evocative piece of language designed to draw a response from the player and the group. This is an area where games like DW diverge heavily from traditional rpgs.

Working out what it really means to 'contemplate an animal's spirit' - delving into that question of being, essence, spirit, the fundamental nature of life and existence - that's what it means to be a druid.

The key here is that it's not a question with an answer in a book or on a forum - it's a question designed to prompt a creative process, of which you and your group are the only meaningful authors.



This is a common theme throughout the *World Games.

Again, the answers are not in the book. The answers are in your group. If you notice, on a 10+ choose 2. On a 7-9 choose 1. So, yes, you can summon an earthquake to collapse a tunnel...

...but even on a 10+ if you choose the desired effect (collapsed tunnel) you can then only choose 1 of avoiding paying a price or retaining control. Which means you either lose control... or the spirits of the earth demand something in return...

Because in these kind of 'faustian pact' moves, it is implicit that as part of the outcome the unchosen option is used to create new, dramatic, entertaining and real consequences. This is where the MC earns their keep, innovating and improvising, adding a new layer of consequences over the player's actions. No-one plays with Elemental Spirits for free...

Thanks, this helps quite a bit. And I think I was misreading Elemental Mastery.

Can you give any examples of "paying nature's price?" I'm having a tough time envisioning what that looks like.

 

[cthulhu42]

So again (and forgive me for being dense, but I really want to get this game), are the bold font texts generally considered moves? This goes back to my clerical Divine Guidance question. It's listed under the cleric's basic moves, so I assume it is a move, but does a move only require a roll if it specifically states that it does?

If not, and Divine Guidance is just a gimmie, does that mean that the cleric just gets a auto boon every day? It does say that the info or boon will be related to the deity's domain, so that narrows it a bit. Still, that seems like a headache.

 

[CubicsRube]

For druid transformation or anything really id recommend talking wirh the player in question with the group. Whats the tone of your game? Do you want to have a game where a 1st level druid can become a dragon? Does the player? Do the others?

I personally would not be keen for it, but tastes can vary.

You are right about the hold, i forgot. It does just work. Its a limited resource after all. However you as gm get to say how this works. You're perfectly within your rights to impose a consequence of a move. So if the player with the purple worm wants to swallow that goblin, you can still set a condition if you want. And you can choose to require the player to make a roll to avoid the effects.

For any move, including moves that require hold, they have to meet the requirements to beable to make the move. You as the gm decide if theyve been met.

Hack and slash for example you have to be able to approach and potentially hurt an enemy. If you are fighting a skilled spearfighter, you might need to defy danger with dex to get in their range or otherwise use some other method. Otherwise they can decide to charge iin and take damage, and only then do they get to hack and slash.

Similarly for a powerful dragon with scales like platemail, the character may not even get a chance to roll hack and slash. Maybe they need to study the dragon and find a weak point before they can attack. Or maybe they need to taunt it to attack its soft mouth as it roars, etc.

So sorry for the long winded post, but if the player wishes to spend a hold to make a move, they still may need to meet a requirement firdt and you get to decide that. They want to swallow that goblin? Well they are darting in and out of a stone archway. You'll need to time your swallow or you'll smash into the archway and take some damage...etc

 

[CubicsRube]

Time is a good rwquirement for an animal shift. It means theyd be able to shoft if they were prepared ahead of time, but couldnt do it all of a sudden in the middle of combat.

Its also a good idea to establish what a failed roll means for the druids shift. You can ask and brainstorm together, but once you decide, its established for the reast of the campaign. Possible ideas are that they take damage as the transformation fails and they are racked with pain. Or oerhaps they are stunned for a while and take -1 ongoing to all rolls until they rest. Or perhaps they take a debikity to one random stat. Or perhaps the transformation goes wrong and they transform into another random animal instead.

 

[CubicsRube]

In terms of bolded text, thats a condition they must meet before they gain the boon. Dont make it easy on them. Most games the rules set the bar, but in dw much of the time you have to set that as the gm. Thats one of the big departures from trad games.
[MENTION=99817]chaochou[/MENTION] s post above is very good as he mentions this.

A cleroc must petition their deity according to the precepts of their religion. What does this mean for their cleric? Maybe their god requires an animal sacrifice. Maybe they must visit a sacred site, maybe they must spend a dayt and a night in solitary prayer. Clerics are a great class ib dw because you can work with the player and really define what their god is about and you are building the mechanical basis for some of the classes moves as well as enriching the world you are playing in