ANy easy, good way to un-nerf magic items in 4th ed?

[Ahglock]

"Gauntlets of Ogre Power" are level 5 items. If you want to tweak them to make them more powerful, keep in mind you'll need to change their level. It sounds to me like you want them to be a level 10+ item.

I'd say the current gauntlets of ogre power are not a level 5 item but a level suck item. If a power is a daily whether it comes form an item or a players, it should be something that you want to save because its so awesome you don't want to waste it unless you really need it.

 

[keterys]

The gauntlets of ogre power would be higher than level "suck" purely for the +1 athletics and strength ability checks they provide (that's probably about 2nd level on its own). The damage bonus is not of tremendous power, it's true - but it's also not supposed to be, and it _is_ useful, no matter what you might think to claim.

 

[Mort_Q]

It depends a great deal on the type of game you're playing in. If you're up against roughly equal numbers of skill challenges, and combat scenarios, the +1 could be very useful.

 

[Regicide]

Players are already sitting with 15-20 cards in front of them to choose from each round between powers, feats racials and the like. Adding even more encounter powers via magic is going to take a slow combat system and grind it to a halt. At least as dailys they use them and then move them off to the side so they don't need to be considered every single round.

As for the magic items, they're already too good. Yeah, there are tons and tons and tons of pretty mediocre things, but they just don't get used. The top 30 or so items that combine to toss any semblance of balance out the window are the main ones that will turn up on your min-maxing munchkin player's shopping lists to add to the treasure bundles anyway.

 

[cjais]

Players are already sitting with 15-20 cards in front of them to choose from each round between powers, feats racials and the like. Adding even more encounter powers via magic is going to take a slow combat system and grind it to a halt. At least as dailys they use them and then move them off to the side so they don't need to be considered every single round.

That's just like, your opinion, man.

Seriously, I haven't found this to be the case. If spellcasters in 3.x could manage, I'm sure this isn't much of a problem.

 

[Ahglock]

The gauntlets of ogre power would be higher than level "suck" purely for the +1 athletics and strength ability checks they provide (that's probably about 2nd level on its own). The damage bonus is not of tremendous power, it's true - but it's also not supposed to be, and it _is_ useful, no matter what you might think to claim.

The +1 bonus is basically the same as the gloves of burglary power which is a level 1 item. Maybe adding Str checks on top of that would bump it up to a level 2 power, but since most strength checks other than just lifting crap is under athletics, not so much IMO.

And the +5 to damage, well sure its useful. A +1 to damage once a millenia is useful, but +5 to damage is just not level 5 daily item useful. It flat out sucks. The entire package I'd put at level 2, 3 if I was stretching it. So it is the level of suck.

 

[keterys]

The +1 bonus is basically the same as the gloves of burglary power which is a level 1 item. Maybe adding Str checks on top of that would bump it up to a level 2 power, but since most strength checks other than just lifting crap is under athletics, not so much IMO.

It is better than the gloves of burglary... hence 2nd level is a good spot for it. This isn't complicated math.

And the +5 to damage, well sure its useful. A +1 to damage once a millenia is useful, but +5 to damage is just not level 5 daily item useful. It flat out sucks. The entire package I'd put at level 2, 3 if I was stretching it. So it is the level of suck.

+5 damage that you can guarantee on an attack has a real value. Your hyperbole does not change that fact. Perhaps level 5 is too high for it, and level 3 might be better... but that's still a perfectly valid item level and not that far off. It's within the same cost band, for instance.

I'd say it's more useful than Gloves of Piercing and Shadowfell Gloves, using its closest neighbors in its item slot. Course, I'd say the shadowfell gloves are overpriced, but it's easy to go 'Let's see, +5 damage you can declare after you've already hit compared to 1d6 that might miss, with the sometimes disadvantage that it has to be necrotic' and see where Gloves of Ogre Power are slightly better, then go 'Oh, and hey, a +1 athletics'.

Given that a +2 Athletics would be about a 7th level item, that's making it look more and more reasonable.

It should definitely be lower level than Gauntlets of the Ram (8th), though, since those are pretty decent.

Now, it may be that you think that many items should be better - that is the subject of this thread, roughly speaking - but it doesn't change you being factually wrong on either your first statement or reply (as factually wrong as saying a +2 weapon are level 2 items cause of how much they suck anyways)... so maybe stick with addressing the problem at hand in a logical fashion before just throwing around "level suck" type advice?

 

[mach1.9pants]

I'll just add my agreement to the nerfy-ness of the daily powers. My PC's are level 7 and I reckon they have used the daily powers of their magic items about 5 times, in total for all four PCs over 7 levels. Most of the time they are not worth spending a standard action on.

However I don't think it is bad. The PC's are the centre of power not their items. And if I want little johnny commoner to have an awesome item he has an artifact

EDIT: A bit OT I guess, Soz

 

[CapnZapp]

As for the magic items, they're already too good. Yeah, there are tons and tons and tons of pretty mediocre things, but they just don't get used. The top 30 or so items that combine to toss any semblance of balance out the window are the main ones that will turn up on your min-maxing munchkin player's shopping lists to add to the treasure bundles anyway.

While I am sure you're correct about some magic items being too good, that doesn't make you right in saying "magic items are too good" in general. Yes, there is a problem, but the problem is something else.

It is allowing players to freely pick and choose items.

Anyone with half a brain can understand this is a one-way trip to munchkin land, so don't do it, and don't blame the magic item chapter if you do.

 

[Ahglock]

Edit: my response was angry so I'll take it out.