Any experience with Swarm Druids?

[UltimaGabe]

I started a new 4e campaign about a month ago, and last week a couple new players joined. One of them is playing a Wilden Swarm Druid- I'm more or less familiar with the Druid class, but as I don't have Primal Power yet, I know next to nothing about Swarm Druids. After two encounters, I have to say he seems incredibly powerful- all of his powers (except his daily) can be used while in Swarm form, meaning that he pretty much always has Damage Resistance equal to his Con modifier (in this case, 4), and his main at-will is a close blast that, even if it misses, causes everyone in the zone to grant combat advantage for a turn. The second of the two encounters I ran was still quite a brutal encounter, but this character without a doubt influenced the outcome more than any other (none of the minions could deal any damage to him, and being able to grant combat advantage to any ally against all of the enemies in the blast definitely was a big deal in the long run).

I'm not calling shenanigans, of course- the player is a mature and trusted friend of mine, and he used the character builder, so I'm sure he had all of his mechanics right and didn't fudge anything. Also, a lot of his benefits were situational (the players ambushed the enemies, so they had a large amount of control over the enemies' placement, and therefore could use area attacks and whatnot much more easily than in a normal encounter, for example), and I'm sure there were some drawbacks to his build (like I said, all but his daily power were usable in his swarm form, so he probably only got to choose from, like, half of his class' powers). But, at first glance, the class seemed to be VERY powerful- the constant damage resistance, for example, proved to be a HUGE benefit, as well as an at-will that grants combat advantage without even having to hit.

Has anyone else had similar experiences with a Swarm Druid? If everything is working as intended, that's fine (it's not something that can't be overcome, but I'm heavily inclined to think that this is unabashed power creep), but if there was something we were all missing, then I'd like to know.

 

[Nebten]

I played with one, and neither one of us thought he was all powerful in a weekend long one-shot. One of his biggest draw backs is a majority of his powers are bursts and blasts. So he had a hard time trying targeting enemies without friendly fire. After a weekend long gaming session at level 7, he was debating make another PC or if he needed to fine tune it to be more fun in the long run.

 

[UltimaGabe]

Ah, gotcha. I can see how that could be a problem- however, I doubt it will be for us, since this party is almost entirely ranged (Fighter, ranged Cleric, ranged Bard, Warlock, and Druid) and the Fighter was absent for the last encounter. (The entire battle consisted mainly of the players luring the enemies into a bottleneck around a corner, and the Druid did most of the tanking as the enemies kept forcing them back little by little.) So, it's seeming more and more like it's just a really good class, added on top of really good group synergy.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Quick word of advice: Ban Claw Gloves from AVII. D10 for melee damage for combat advantage is just too much. (And yes, Swarm Druids make pretty good sub-defenders). He should also have been unable to access his third At Will.

 

[lukelightning]

I play a wilden swarm druid as well (still level 1), and found it to be lots of fun. Yeah, the damage-reducing ability is great, but remember that it is only vs. melee and ranged attacks, not bursts, blasts, environmental damage (e.g. falling), damaging zones, auras, etc.

I built this character to be a back-up tank, but since enemies couldn't damage me much, they just kept moving away (and out of my CA bug cloud) — so this resulted in me taking no damage my first two adventures!

I, too, plan on focusing on beastform powers — unfortunately this works counter to two of the best at-wills (grasping tide and fire hawk; they both have secondary attacks that a druid might not be able to make in beast form... there is a big debate about this elsewhere).

Note that the locust cloud power is not swarm-druid only, so any druid could take it.

 

[FrozenChrono]

Actually the only issue you described that is swarm druid specific is their DR in beast form. It's worth noting that it only counts against ranged and melee so bursts and blasts still do full damage.

All the other issues described seem like they're just a result of having a well built well played controller in your group and giving him combats where he really shines. Let him play a few more matches with different setup's to combat and see how well he's doing.

 

[babinro]

My group had a primal guardian druid play the first 15ish levels then switch to Swarm when Primal Power come out. He's since played up to our current level 22 game as a swarm build.

The Swarm build seems much stronger overall. His character has all but about 2 dailies and an at-will that are in beast form and as such greatly benefits from damage reduction. At level 22, he has damage reduction 7 vs melee and ranged. This makes minions all but a joke against him. Since many monsters are designed with multiple melee attack in mind, the druid is truly a tank requiring the least healing in the party far and wide.

Offensively the swarm druid has the potential to be great, or poor depending on how many enemies are lined up and if he can get into position with relative safety. I'd say this is a pretty good balance considering other builds don't have worry about position in order to play out consistently well.

Defensively though, the swarm druid is probably a little too powerful. A problem that could quickly be fixed with the removal of Hide Expertise Feat giving them a good defense on top of great damage reduction. That's just my opinion though.

 

[Wonderland666]

Defensively though, the swarm druid is probably a little too powerful. A problem that could quickly be fixed with the removal of Hide Expertise Feat giving them a good defense on top of great damage reduction. That's just my opinion though.

i already played one twice and died twice.it's a good charakter. Hide Expertise is not the PRoblem. Its a fair feat. Yes you get a lot of AC with that feat, and with Damage Reduktion (sometimes)its good , but when on Level 4, when enemys-solos or Boss starts doing about 20+ Damage , you realy need that AC to get a simlar damage as a Fullplate Tank. (You have AC 21, the Tank has 3 or 4 More) without the feat you have AC 16 and Damage reduktion 5 , you will get a lot more Damage than the Tankgetting hit by about 3/4 of the Attacks . With 21 its about 50% and the Tank is about 30%, so it is about the same, but you have to spend a feat and max an attribute for it. So i see no reason to say its too powerfull.
Okay the Clawgloves are a little bit low in Level. the similar Item for the Wizard is about level 17, but works easier and to all targets, Clawgloves only works on melee (Not closeblasts!). So it should be an item of level about 8 and not 4.

 

[Ninjazombie42]

This article helped me alot

 

[Ninjazombie42]

This article helped me alot