Any inherent conflict between per-encounter and per-day abilities?

[hong]

I find it interesting that the only concern most people have is balance. Per day is plausible in the game world; per encounter is strange, to say the least, and is clearly derived from metagame concerns.

I got your "legal-style contextual analysis" RIGHT HERE, gamer boy.

HAW HAW!

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Actually I think per-encounter can work in-game. I view a per-encounter ability as something that takes a lot out of a person to use, and as such they rather not have to do such a thing as often as possible.

So essentially:

At will - Takes up very little effort, so can do multiple times.
Per Encounter - Takes up more effort and leaves a person to tired to do such a ability again till he has time to rest/recover.
Per Day - A very exhausting ability that would be potentially harmful to do again without a day to recover.

 

[Campbell]

I find it interesting that the only concern most people have is balance. Per day is plausible in the game world; per encounter is strange, to say the least, and is clearly derived from metagame concerns.

Balance isn't my only concern. I'm also concerned about pacing, a suitable level of believability, resolving dramatic conflicts, and your mom.

 

[WhatGravitas]

I find it interesting that the only concern most people have is balance. Per day is plausible in the game world; per encounter is strange, to say the least, and is clearly derived from metagame concerns.

Erm... why? Per encounter basically means it's something very exhausting you cannot pull off again without catching your breath. I mean, run around, lift something 200 lbs., drop it, keep running... and try lifting it again. You'll probably fail. But once you stop running, sit down some minutes... you can probably pull it off again.

And that's the end of an encounter - a chance to catch your breath, relax a bit (also mentally), refocus... and being relieved that nothing wants to eat your face anymore! Then you'll probably less exhausted and do heavy work again.

On the other hand, per day is pretty strange. What makes one so dependant on the 24 hour cycle? It cannot be these 8 hours of sleep - per day abilities won't recover after a second nap. Only if a day passes and you nap. Sounds a bit more rules-driven.

Cheers, LT.

 

[hong]

Erm... why? Per encounter basically means it's something very exhausting you cannot pull off again without catching your breath. I mean, run around, lift something 200 lbs., drop it, keep running... and try lifting it again. You'll probably fail. But once you stop running, sit down some minutes... you can probably pull it off again.

And that's the end of an encounter - a chance to catch your breath, relax a bit (also mentally), refocus... and being relieved that nothing wants to eat your face anymore! Then you'll probably less exhausted and do heavy work again.

On the other hand, per day is pretty strange. What makes one so dependant on the 24 hour cycle? It cannot be these 8 hours of sleep - per day abilities won't recover after a second nap. Only if a day passes and you nap. Sounds a bit more rules-driven.

Cheers, LT.

"Per encounter" is a subjective definition, one that depends highly on the specifics of each situation and the preferences of each individual gaming group/DM. As such, it's not amenable to rules analysis in the same way as an objective definition like "per round" is. This has the potential to be highly distressing to those whose D&D experience is governed by rules analysis.

 

[WhatGravitas]

"Per encounter" is a subjective definition, one that depends highly on the specifics of each situation and the preferences of each individual gaming group/DM. As such, it's not amenable to rules analysis in the same way as an objective definition like "per round" is. This has the potential to be highly distressing to those whose D&D experience is governed by rules analysis.

You mean... people who don't like Mearls?

Cheers, LT.

 

[kennew142]

Per encounter abilities are only a problem if players or GMs attempt the game the system by artificially lengthening an encounter to extend a power's duration. I have to say that I have very sympathy with this "problem." Each gaming group can put a stop to such behavior on their own.

My group has a waiting list of potential new players long enough to make a whole new gaming group. Any player who was (in our opinion) disruptive in such a way would be invited to find another group to play with. If lucky, they would receive a single warning.

When we play games with per encounter (or per scene) abilities, the encounter and/or scene is over when the GM says it is over. There is no argument.

 

[Cadfan]

I find it interesting that the only concern most people have is balance. Per day is plausible in the game world; per encounter is strange, to say the least, and is clearly derived from metagame concerns.

You mean it makes sense that one would only be able to do something a certain amount of times before one needs an eight hour nap, but it does not make sense that one would only be able to do something a certain amount of times before one needs a one minute break?

 

[Cadfan]

And as a general point- if your characters can intentionally run all the day's combats together into one giant fight in order to artificially extend the duration of a spell, and still win that fight even though none of their per encounter have refreshed, odds are you are not adequately challenging your players.

 

[Oliviander]

5 minute mage

And looking at once-per-day abilities versus once-per-encounter powers, it would probably be very tempting to "balance" these by making once-per-day abilities more powerful than once-per-encounter. If so, will that be the return of the "five-minute mage"? With the five-minute mage it was the spellcaster blowing all his spells during a single encounter, and then waiting for a new day and new spells; with the one-encounter party, it is all the party members that simply pick once-per-day abilities over once-per-encounter ones, and then use them all during the first encounter of the day, refusing to do more after that. Is such a party possible? Probable?

Anybody care to speculate?

I think in a good crafted (or at least good mastered) adventure the 5 minute mage never standed any chance.

If the encounter is a solitaire one it's ok that it has no impact on others by resting.

If an encounter is part of an adventure the opponents should get a serious advantage.
If a party delays:
Dungeons are reinforced.
Treasures are either secured or stolen.
Strategies can get optimized.
Monsters get healed.
Informaitons get transported.
etc.

In our campaign time is money almost ever.
Our group is nearly always very low on money even at 16th average level (v3.0).
If we would try the abovementioned tactics, we simply would be totally bankrupt.
(And therefore permanantly dead as the diamonds would be out of reach)