D&D 5E Any word on (Full) 5e PDFs?

[DEFCON 1]

Now, whether or not the ultimately book more revenue with DungeonScape than they would have from PDFs (or from both -- they're not mutually exclusive, after all) is a reasonable debate. Personally, I seriously doubt it for several reasons -- not the least of which is their dismal track record with digital tools -- but it's a reasonable debate.

Whereas the other side of the reasonable debate is that of course they got more revenue from DDI and expect to get it from Dungeonscape... because otherwise they wouldn't have made those programs in the first place or they would have eventually sold PDFs in addition to them if they weren't doing well enough.

I know some people like to think WotC is some horribly mis-managed company with absolutely no business sense... but those people are talking out of their rear ends. Because if WotC really thought selling $20 PH PDFs would actually generate more money than subscriptions to DDI/DS... why would any of us possibly think they were too stupid to do it? What, do we think they're just vindictive dunderheads that are purposely holding back some cash cow just because they know we want them?

I know we are a culture that believes that when we aren't given what we want or what we think we're owed, it's a personal affront and we have every right to be offended... but that ain't actually true. Nope. Rather, we're just more often than not immature and entitled.

 

[Bugleyman]

Whereas the other side of the reasonable debate is that of course they got more revenue from DDI and expect to get it from Dungeonscape... because otherwise they wouldn't have made those programs in the first place or they would have eventually sold PDFs in addition to them if they weren't doing well enough.

I know some people like to think WotC is some horribly mis-managed company with absolutely no business sense... but those people are talking out of their rear ends. And if they really though selling $20 PH PDFs would actually generate more money than subscriptions to DDI/DS... why would any of us possibly think they were too stupid to do it? What, do we think they're just vindictive dunderheads that are purposely holding back some cash cow just because they know we want them?

I know we are a culture that believes that when we aren't given what we want or what we think we're owed, it's a personal affront and we have every right to be offended... but that ain't actually true. Nope. Rather, we're just more often than not immature and entitled.

Frankly, I think they just have it wrong, particularly when it comes to PDFs. The assumption that big corporations always (or even often) get it right is easily debunked by a few years of working for them. YMMV.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Frankly, I think they just have it wrong, particularly when it comes to PDFs. The assumption that big corporations always (or even often) get it right is easily debunked by a few years of working for them. YMMV.

The fact that you think Wizards of the Coast is a "big corporation" tells me that perhaps your opinions on these business matters might not be the most spot-on. (Or if you were implying Hasbro as the "big corporation"... the fact you think Hasbro has any influence on Wizards on whether or not to produce PDFs of their books tells me that as well.)

 

[Bugleyman]

The fact that you think Wizards of the Coast is a "big corporation" tells me that perhaps your opinions on these business matters might not be the most spot-on. (Or if you were implying Hasbro as the "big corporation"... the fact you think Hasbro has any influence on Wizards on whether or not to produce PDFs of their books tells me that as well.)

I was referring to Hasbro. Which, by any reasonable measure, is a big corporation. And I assure you, Hasbro has absolute control of what WotC does -- whether or not they choose to exercise that control is an entirely different question.

But we're done here. Besides the inferences-as-veiled-personal-attacks, you're convinced that they have it right, and nothing I say is going to change your mind. We can agree to disagree, but I would thank you to not paint me as entitled.

 

[mcbobbo]

Then you don't have to.

It's really up to you. WotC knows a certain segment of the population wants PDFs and will not accept getting an electronic copy through Dungeonscape (or DDI for the 4E era). They've accepted that those people won't spend the money on subscribing, and aparently seem okay with that loss. You thus have three choices-- accept you won't have a PDF of the book... buy a book, take it apart and scan it into the computer yourself to create your own PDF copy... or pirate a PH already scanned, assuming your morals allow you to do that. And it seems at this point in time... WotC just accepts each option as a fait accompli.

As has been said... piracy is going to happen. Some people just don't care about the morality of it. But if any of us here are going to be one of those people, just do it with your head held high, rather than try and get all defensive about it and blame WotC for making you have to put aside your morals because WotC isn't giving any other option. Cause we all know that's BS, and besides which, we *do* have another option which was #2-- buy a second book and scan it ourselves.

But usually it seems everyone's too cheap to ever consider that as an option, so they keep demanding WotC provide it for like half-off the cover price.

I'm the guy who burned all my Napster files, but I do have my limits. And note that (for my own use) scanning my PHB is legitimate fair use. I bought the book and I am entitled to consume it.

Whether I use my own sheetfed scanner or a file generated by someone else seems to bear little moral weight.

In D&D terms, abstaining from a PDF when the copyright holder refuses to provide one is deeply in Lawful Good territory. And with fair use in play it veers towards Lawful Stupid, IMO.

I'm a Neutral Good kind of guy.

 

[mcbobbo]

I was referring to Hasbro. Which, by any reasonable measure, is a big corporation. And I assure you, Hasbro has absolute control of what WotC does -- whether or not they choose to exercise that control is an entirely different question.

But we're done here. Besides the inferences-as-veiled-personal-attacks, you're convinced that they have it right, and nothing I say is going to change your mind. We can agree to disagree, but I would thank you to not paint me as entitled simply because it is the latter.

It occurs to me his focus on your use of the word 'big' overlooked your point entirely.

The fact they behave as a corporation (as opposed to a company that happens to be incorporated) is enough to drive the point. You don't need to be 'big' to make decisions by comittee, for example.

 

[Bugleyman]

It occurs to me his focus on your use of the word 'big' overlooked your point entirely.

The fact they behave as a corporation (as opposed to a company that happens to be incorporated) is enough to drive the point. You don't need to be 'big' to make decisions by comittee, for example.

Yeah, I noticed that as well, but I was assuming it wasn't a deliberate misdirection.

In any event, it appears I'll be going the scan route, which is greatly inconvenient for me, and generates zero incremental revenue for them. But hey, I'm sure they know best, because corporations don't make mistakes, AMIRITE?

 

[GlassJaw]

It's no secret that a lot of companies/corps, whether big or small, are deathly afraid of digital distribution of any type and will clutch to old business models until they realize it's too late. Trust me when I say Hasbro absolutely falls into this category.

Heck, even other much smaller gaming companies haven't embraced digital distribution. Privateer Press (the Warmachine company) killed an awesome free fan-created list-building app and came out with their own 3rd-party app that was horrifically buggy and cost a ton. They've also released their own "pdfs" but it requires installing their own proprietary (and buggy) e-reader app.

Making your PDFs and digital offerings a pain to acquire won't stop piracy. Nor will not releasing PDFs at all. It only makes the customers that want to give you money frustrated.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Making your PDFs and digital offerings a pain to acquire won't stop piracy. Nor will not releasing PDFs at all. It only makes the customers that want to give you money frustrated.

Yup. Frustrated enough that a good proportion of you will actually sign up for Dungeonscape in order to acquire it in some form and fashion. Some of you won't, sure. But some of you will. And the money that comes in monthly from those of you who do through that digital distribution means more to them than a one-time payment for a PDF from the rest of you.

A steady stream of known monthly income matters.

 

[mcbobbo]

Either that, or PDFs will come later and Dungeonscape is not the new DDI. Is isn't like anyone here has sources for that info, right?