D&D 5E Anyone else annoyed at Wizards lack of Minion summoners?

[JacktheRabbit]

I had an idea for cantrip. It summons an imp that appears beside a creature, takes a swipe at it, then vanishes.

At higher levels, it summons something stronger, in a manner matching the other damaging cantrips.

Sounds like you take any one of the myriad damage dealing cantrips and reskin it for visual effect.

 

[Hawk Diesel]

It should also be noted that the necromancer can have a host of undead so having multiple minions doesn't seem to have been be considered so unbalancing.

This reminds me. Animate Dead can serve as an alternate Summon Monster spell if you change the flavor. In essence, as mentioned before, there is nothing inherent about the zombie or skeleton stat block that makes them a zombie or skeleton. They can just as easily be wolves, giant spiders, golems, eidolons, or whatever. In fact, it is more powerful than most summon spells since it does not require concentration and has no duration (though you lose control of the undead after 24 hours). One could easily change the casting time to 1 action and not require a dead body, balancing those changes by making the duration Concentration 1 hour to maintain the relative power level of the spell.

 

[Iry]

Find Familiar can summon a fiend at Level 1. =D

 

[MechaTarrasque]

Find Familiar can summon a fiend at Level 1. =D

True. By the time you add FF, the fiend summoning spells from XGtE (3), the elemental summoning spells (2), and gate, the wizard's summoning spell list basically doubles the druid's summoning spell list, but why let facts get in the way of complaining about something on the Enworld forums......

 

[Bacon Bits]

I am not at all annoyed by the poor quality of summoning spells.

Frankly, as a player and a DM there's two kinds of spells that I really hate: summoning spells and polymorph spells. I hate them for the exact same reason. They take too much game time because players are idiots. The player invariably spends 5 minutes just looking up the stats of whatever he's picked. They never bring their own Monster Manual, either. Summoning spells are doubly bad because when it's the player's turn they take as long as the rest of the group combined to finish their turn because they suddenly have to play 2-4 characters.

 

[Arilyn]

I am not at all annoyed by the poor quality of summoning spells.

Frankly, as a player and a DM there's two kinds of spells that I really hate: summoning spells and polymorph spells. I hate them for the exact same reason. They take too much game time because players are idiots. The player invariably spends 5 minutes just looking up the stats of whatever he's picked. They never bring their own Monster Manual, either. Summoning spells are doubly bad because when it's the player's turn they take as long as the rest of the group combined to finish their turn because they suddenly have to play 2-4 characters.

That's a problem with the players, not the spells. Players should come to the table prepared. If they can't remember details of a spell or ability, it's no big deal to scribble the info down on index cards or whatever. Suggesting this to a scrambling player is not out of line. AS a GM, I would only allow this to happen once. Next time come with the info, or don't cast those spells.

 

[Istbor]

My concern, while in part is players being unprepared, and remorsefully so, is spotlight control. I want my Wizards to be kings of magic, and my Fighters to be kings of martial combat. Once a Wizard is able to summon a creatures that are in all but equal to a fighter, and still be able to cast spells over top of that, my trigger is pulled.

I believe that is the worry that lead to our current state of summoners.

I don't want to tread on another's idea of fun however, so a measured adjustment would not fall on deaf ears at my table. Looking at the support summoners currently have with spells and different classes seems quite solid at the moment to me. And flavorful. There is nothing I like more that a risky summon that could break it's leash and turn on its 'master'.

 

[Caliban]

The lack of Pokemon Trainers in D&D doesn't bother me at all.

 

[jgsugden]

The best Summons I have seen that do not bog the game down are ones that don't use creature mechanics for the summons. Instead, they approximate the creatures in a simplified form or entirely bypass monsters as a whole. Examples in plain English:

Conjure Lava: 2nd level spell that conjures lava and dropsit on an enemy for a little damage and leaves a field that deals damage to anyone in it as long as the caster concentrated.

Ride of the Valkyries: 6th level spell that summons a Horde of Valkyries on Pegasi that sweep across the battlefield and make two melee attack against every foe in the area. The attacks use the Spell Attack of the Caster -5 and deal d12+20+5d8 radiant (simulating great weapon master and smiting). They disappear at the end of the turn, so attacking them is irrelevant.

Launch: A 2nd level spell that teleports a target 60 feet straight up (which presumably causes a fall). If there is a barrier in the way, they appear beneath the barrier instead. Creatures beneath the target may take damage from the falling target (poor mount).

 

[Dausuul]

What fiend summoning spells do wizards get at 3rd spell level?

Or are these Xanathar spells? I don't have that book, so, I have no idea.

Yeah, they're XGtE spells.

At 3rd level, you get summon lesser demons, which calls in a bunch of low-grade demons - manes, quasits, that sort of thing - and drops them on your enemies' heads. You don't control the demons, they just attack anything that moves. They vanish as soon as you stop concentrating, and you can make a warding circle that protects a single creature of your size or smaller. However, the warding circle requires the blood of a humanoid slain within the last 24 hours*.

At 4th level, you get summon greater demon and infernal calling, both of which summon a single more powerful fiend and give you a measure of control... shaky, dangerous control. You can hang onto the summoned creature as long as you dare. It keeps getting saving throws to break loose. If you stop concentrating, it vanishes; but if it's broken free, it gets a little extra time to nosh on you before going back. Again, you can do a warding circle for protection, if you don't mind murdering someone to get the component.

They're very thematic and flavorful. If you want to play a fiend summoner, XGtE has you covered. If you prefer to play with less malevolent forces, however, you're out of luck. Personally, I see no problem with limiting wizard summons to fiends and elementals; I just wish there were more options for elementals at lower levels.

[SIZE=-2]*The blood is a material component for all of these spells. There's no listed cost on the blood, so normally you could use an arcane focus instead. However, the description of the warding circle is quite specific that you draw it with the blood used as a material component. So, the way I read it, you can cast the spell with an arcane focus and no blood, but then you can't have a warding circle. This is definitely up to DM interpretation though.[/SIZE]