Anyone else find it annoying to figure out skills for NPCs?

[ivocaliban]

As a DM creating NPCs is my favorite part of the behind-the-scenes aspect of gaming. As I don't get to play D&D very often (in 14 years I've only played in two campaigns, neither of which lasted more than a month), making NPCs is as close as I can get to making my own characters. As I only have one PC in my current campaign NPCs are crucial for providing the proper support. In fact, I've got a catalog of NPCs that dates back to the early ninties and includes about 2000 individuals. Of those, about a quarter are fully fleshed out and could be used as PCs, while the others are in shorthand, including only the basics.

 

[Turjan]

Here is what Mike Mearls said about this:

"Electronic tools are a good way to treat the symptoms, but the don't address the fundamental problem with the system.

The fundamental problem is that DMs are shackled to systems and methods for monster and NPC creation that are, at their core, designed for use by players.

Players and DMs have radically different needs.

Thus, players and DMs should have radically different tools.

This is something that I hope is cleaned up in 4e. It's one of the major, structural flaws in D&D 3.x. The current design has far too much horizontal consistency for the sake of horizontal consistency.

(Horizontal consistency = consistency across different rule structures.)"

Pretty much sums it up .

 

[el-remmen]

I find it easy.

It's not like NPCs make that many skill checks anyway.

Not in my game, buddy. . .

 

[Arnwyn]

I find it easy.

How many skill points does the NPC get per level? That's how many skills he has totally maxed out. Just pick 'em and move on. It's not like NPCs make that many skill checks anyway.

I know of that, and find it neither satisfying nor useful. (Besides, my NPCs make skill checks all the time - Spot and Listen being the big two, with Concentration, Ride, Hide, Move Silently, Sense Motive, and Search all coming a close second.)

 

[Belen]

The key to that problem is coming to grips with the concept that...

Rules are for players.

Once you've taken that as your personal mantra, your GMing life will be a breeze.

Ding...we have a winner.

I never worry about it. I jusually use e-tools for simple NPCs, and for BBEGs I figure out the number of skills they can have with max rank and assign them. Simple.

 

[el-remmen]

Here is what Mike Mearls said about this:

"Electronic tools are a good way to treat the symptoms, but the don't address the fundamental problem with the system.

The fundamental problem is that DMs are shackled to systems and methods for monster and NPC creation that are, at their core, designed for use by players.

Players and DMs have radically different needs.

Thus, players and DMs should have radically different tools.

This is something that I hope is cleaned up in 4e. It's one of the major, structural flaws in D&D 3.x. The current design has far too much horizontal consistency for the sake of horizontal consistency.

(Horizontal consistency = consistency across different rule structures.)"

Pretty much sums it up .

This kind of goes against the grain of my own philosophy about games and rules. I work very hard to maintain that horizontal consistancy. To me that is called "fairness".

 

[Turjan]

This kind of goes against the grain of my own philosophy about games and rules. I work very hard to maintain that horizontal consistancy. To me that is called "fairness".

D&D is first and foremost a game that tries to appeal to as many people as possible. There are people who like to read huge law books. There are people who enjoy the mathematical beauty of the HERO system. There are even people who like to read phonebooks. However, I doubt any of these people are the norm .

 

[Henry]

The problem, Nemm, is that you can have detail, or you can have expediency. Unfortunately, I've not yet found a game system that offers both, and ESPECIALLY not d20.

My solution is to make their skill check equal to (A) straight d20 roll if they are not known for a skill, (B) bonus equal to class level if they have the skill, or (C) class level +5 if they are GOOD at a skill. If I have time, I might play with the numbers for major NPCs, but I use a very stripped down system for most non-main-bad guy NPCs.

Rules are for players.

This may possibly be the best quote I've seen on these forums in a month.

 

[Khayman]

I just determine their max ranks in Spot/Listen/Sense Motive and top 'em up. Most NPCs just exist to notice the PCs doing something illicit or embarassing anyway...

 

[el-remmen]

Well, this thread was more of a gripe, than actually expecting a solution