D&D 5E Anyone else finding character advancement pretty dull?

[5ekyu]

I could go for an idea like getting an extra Skill proficiency when proficiency increases to make up for the broad skill gap between Bards/Rogues and everyone else, but by and large, I love the leveling up system here. I'd rather take 5 minutes to finalize my abilities and then go off running to use them than leveling up being its own goddamn ordeal. Even accounting for D&D ostensibly being a power fantasy, what I've heard about 3.5 levels making characters that were either unplayable or broken seems like, idk, really indulgent.

Saw my group play thru 3.5 and now 5e and they really prefer the 5e. they didn't mind 3.5. they have played tons of system since 1e. But, across the board they find "fit to character" a bit easier to get to in 5e and not so much a "construct for power and prerequisites from day 1 to 20" seemingly mandatory vibe coming from 5e.

Some of my guys are the "constructor kit" guys but the majority prefer the quicker "level up doesn't take long to do and get playing" even if the levels come slower here and there because of how we play.

Some have expressed an eagerness to try my next game change-up: We will only level at odd- levels. All the pacing rates etc will stay the same but when you are @3rd you will stay @3rd until the point to level to @5th is reached - then you will level for both 4th and 5th at once. (This is to give an even longer time to play thru your "new stuff" before having to work in a new batch of "newer stuff" and make each "level-up" seem even more dramatic.) less re-work more in-play.

 

[Gradine]

An Advanced Player's Handbook with alternative PHB classes would be a good start. (Classes with more build options per level, I mean. Instead of the game choosing for you.)

So you want new classes for 5e that do not follow the core design philosophy of 5e class construction?

 

[Ovinomancer]

Then you know that I did in fact acknowledge the 50% new and increased sales portions. Feel free to scroll up and re-read a few dozen more times if it helps.

And I can also scroll up and see I never saud you did not, only that attribution isn't necessary for a strawman. Stay on target.

 

[ad_hoc]

There seems to be a lot of entitlement here. Statements like WotC has a 'responsibility' and such. Also doomsday prophecies if WotC doesn't do what they want.

One person who isn't satisfied plays 24 hours/month. I don't think that is common. I think 8 hours/month is closer to what most people who are able to play regularly experience.

It's weird to expect WotC to design around outliers. It's weirder still to me to be complaining about a company who is making a game that you want to play 24 hours/month. That sounds like a happy customer to me.

The 'WotC will rue the day' comments are strange too. There was a time when people thought 5e might never happen. Then when it was announced people were hoping it would be able to compete with Pathfinder. It has gone on to be the most successful RPG of all time, AINEC. 4 years in it is gaining momentum in sales.

People should accept that old hardcore hobby gamers are not D&D's core demographic anymore. This is a good thing.

 

[Parmandur]

And who decides whether changes such as those I proposed wouldn't make it even more successful?

I find statements of this type the kind of sterile conjecture that adds nothing to the debate.

Your last point does have some fizz to it however, as success on this level may breed complacency, or at the very least the kind of performance that takes the edge off continual improvement.

To that end I wouldn't expect to see 6E for a long span of years.

All any of us has is conjecture: WotC has the market and playtest research data, and seem pretty committed to this working system.

 

[Mistwell]

Seeing as I didn't attribute that argument to you, it's not a Strawman.



And again, I didn't attribute that to you, so no Strawman.



You have yet to provide any real proof of this. Good sales doesn't cut it, since you can enjoy buying the books and want to buy more books that aren't there.



Cool. I never asked for a significantly increased rate. As for WotC and market research, they've screwed the pooch on that many times. They have done the research, but have proven unable to read it correctly.



Yes it is your job to back up your claims. That's how debate works.

You took the affirmative position here, claiming people want more content. I am waiting for a single link from you for anything which backs up that factual assertion. All you've done is demand proof that counters your unproven claim which challenges the status quo. That's not how this works. If you challenge the status quo, the burden starts with you supporting that challenge with something more than, "Here's my guess about what people think, which just happens to be identical to what I prefer."

And no, "they messed up 8 years ago and more" is not proof of anything. It's not even the same "they" as those years.

 

[ccs]

You took the affirmative position here, claiming people want more content. I am waiting for a single link from you for anything which backs up that factual assertion.

Ok, here's his back up.
I'm a 5e player/DM. And I want more WoTC produced content.

Specifically all I want a new dedicated MM volume every 12-18 months.
Books like Volos & Mordenkainens aren't quite what I want as they waste page count on Player options & detailing the cosmos etc.

 

[Sacrosanct]

As a Dm I've always felt that most monsters books were somethign I'd flip though and then rarely use. 90% of what I use tends to come from the core MM, in 1e, 3e, 5e.

And I think the crunch hungry players need to accept that they are not the market focus anymore. They are focused on the more causal player who doesn't care about 50 options each level. Its working well for them and expanding the player base.

Pretty much this. And bringing back a lot of relapsed players. It's sort of like Zard's recent thread on now XG breaks the game due to builds. Even if it does, I think that's only for a tiny % of gamers. Casual players (which is me now, and has been for the past decade or so), don't care, or don't have the time to spend the energy on finding the best charop builds, or a zillion monsters, or a ton of player options. IMO, that's actually a turn off because it seems too much to know in order to play the game. I can't speak for everyone of course, but I think I speak for a whole lot of people older than 35 when I say people over 35ish have their own families, and kids, and work, and a million other things so that we can't play every weekend all weekend long. We've become casual players. And since D&D came out in the 70s, and has made a resurgence in popularity, there a whole heck of a lot of us out there in this boat (casual adult players).

And from a business perspective, WoTC focusing on the casual players instead of the outliers has proven to be a sound decision because I'm sure they are more than aware of how many we are now too, and with disposable income. Catering to the outliers is not a sound business decision. I really would love a turn based first person party based RPG for my PS4. Guess what? With the cost of making a good game, and the number of people like me who would want that wouldn't make for a very profitable game. In that case, I'm an outlier. I need to accept that. Incessantly complaining about it, or demanding that I'm entitled to one won't change anything. I can either decide to play what is out there, or to move on to a different platform to fulfill my needs.

 

[BookBarbarian]

Ok, here's his back up.
I'm a 5e player/DM. And I want more WoTC produced content.

Specifically all I want a new dedicated MM volume every 12-18 months.
Books like Volos & Mordenkainens aren't quite what I want as they waste page count on Player options & detailing the cosmos etc.

I find it interesting that the content you want diverges largely from what I see most people who want more content (even in this thread) asking for: more player options.

If anything it seems to indicate to me that by bundling Monsters, Player Options, and setting info like cosmos detailing WotC is putting out, despite it not being what you want, a fairly guaranteed to sell well book.

 

[Mistwell]

Ok, here's his back up.
I'm a 5e player/DM. And I want more WoTC produced content.

Specifically all I want a new dedicated MM volume every 12-18 months.
Books like Volos & Mordenkainens aren't quite what I want as they waste page count on Player options & detailing the cosmos etc.

LOL he specifically said he does NOT want more monsters And I agree with you I'd like more monsters, particularly mid and higher level ones. And lairs with lair actions. And legendary creatures.