Anyone else long for old days simplicity?

[mmadsen]

If you're dealing with newbies, why even present them with all the options? Why not pregenerate characters? Or ask them what kind of characters might interest them, and generate the characters for them?

Or tell them to pick Fighter or Rogue, use the default stat array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8), pick N skills to max out, and pick two or three appropriate feats from a short list.

In many ways, the system isn't particularly complex, but it presents too much data to process intelligently until you've been playing the game awhile.

 

[Psion]

I'd really like something like Jamis Buck's generators that worked well, but the guys that it generates are just to nonsensical. One of those fighters had weapon focus( short spear) and improved critical( great axe).

And you couldn't make the logical leap and change one or the other.

That said, sometimes when using Jamis' program, I let less than optimal combos stand. Why? Because real people are rarely optimal. I know I sure as hell would be far from min-maxed if I was a character.

 

[adndgamer]

If you're dealing with newbies, why even present them with all the options? Why not pregenerate characters? Or ask them what kind of characters might interest them, and generate the characters for them?

Because I know that if I choose stuff for them I'll be hearing complaining later on when a choice I made for them doesn't work out best for them.

Making characters takes a bit of time, and I'd rather do it once and for-real the first time, rather than making a practice character, then building a new one later on to adventure with again a few sessions later. Ah well... I whined about how complicated it is, and you gave me an answer, and now I'm whining about your answer.

I agree that the problem may be that it just presents too much information at the same time, tho.

 

[mmadsen]

Making characters takes a bit of time, and I'd rather do it once and for-real the first time, rather than making a practice character, then building a new one later on to adventure with again a few sessions later.

I understand your gripe, but look at it as an opportunity to restrict the players without their even knowing it. That way, Wizards and Clerics seem mysterious and powerful, Elves inscrutable, etc. Everything you introduce will excite them.

That's much harder to do later on, once the genie's out of the bottle.

 

[adndgamer]

I understand your gripe, but look at it as an opportunity to restrict the players without their even knowing it. That way, Wizards and Clerics seem mysterious and powerful, Elves inscrutable, etc. Everything you introduce will excite them.

That's much harder to do later on, once the genie's out of the bottle.

That's a good idea.. I'll try to remember it with the next batch Thanks

 

[Orcus]

"Because I know that if I choose stuff for them I'll be hearing complaining later on when a choice I made for them doesn't work out best for them."

I always pregenerate for newbies. Then, after first level I allow them to mix and switch skills or feats if they see ones they would like better.

I usually meet with newbies the night before the first session. We go over the sample characters. If they want to switch things right there we can. Then we run a few sample combats to show the basic d20 mechanics, opposed rolls versus rolls against a fixed DC, basic combat, then the advanced concepts of reach and attacks of opportunity,

Clark

 

[Kichwas]

Actualy, I don't do that.

I generaly use "mook" characters for just horde-wading... characters with a semi-arbitrary HP, AC, and BAB that present a challange to the characters.

Only characters that would warrent a name actualy get rolled up.

I do near the same.

I give the mook's stats as I need them. Such as assigning the hit points the moment the first player makes it on a to hit roll...

But the "guys with names" usually get a character sheet. Though more often they only get mental or physical notes on who they are and what their motivations entail.

If I really think I'll need it I'll do up a sheet. But usually that only comes about when I'm bored or I'm trying to make sure some idea is fair to toss at the players. Such as when I gave the Sovereign Stone spell casting rules a test run by making a ratman mage and throwing him against the PCs. He was one of 5 NPCs in the entire campaign to get a writeup.


On newbies and pregens: experienced roleplayer love making characters (usually). Even for a new RPG system. But newbie players and sometimes even old hats under a new system tend to prefer just telling what they want in non game terms and having help translate it.

Almost everybody knows fantasy. So you can often get a character desription out of people and then turn it into game stats for them.

But you should always let them redesign it later when they know the rules or when they feel your translation doesn't match their vision.

In fact that last clause in my games applies to all players. Everybody gets three sessions with a character to get me a finalized character sheet. Though I often accept revisions even after that point. Especially if I add a new book to the list of allowed sources for the game.

Much better to allow revisions to an existing PC to make it better fit the way the player sees it than to cause them to try and switch it out for a new PC and thus risk disrupting the current storyline.

 

[Treacherous]

This may be a silly question, but as a DM who has to create literally zillons of levelled npcs does anyone else long for previous editions simplicity.

Indeed, I harken to the days of 2000 and early 2001, or 3rd edition minus lame supplements, as I like to call it. How I long for the days before hundreds of poorly thought out prestige classes and feats invaded. Ah, the good old days.

 

[SableWyvern]

Re: Re: NPC Generator

SO?...the generator doesn't minmax?

He tries to be a wizard, but he isn't that good...but he is healthy...

Umm. In my books, 13 Int is enough to allow a character to realise that he's wasting his time endeavouring to develop skills he can't use.

Besides which, if I want to pit a 13th level Wiz against the party, I want a 13th level Wiz, not a 5th level Wiz with good saves and hp.

Creating a viable character and minmaxing are two very different things.

I will admit that this could make for a very interesting NPC who was going to interact with the party as a major (or even just comic relief) story device. But I would never use a random generator to create that sort of character.

 

[Numion]

Re: Re: NPC Generator

SO?...the generator doesn't minmax?

He tries to be a wizard, but he isn't that good...but he is healthy...

Thats about the lamest excuse...

If we should be happy with everything the generator spews out, no matter how incoherent the characters may be, why not just make up the stats yourself? The main problem people were discussing here was that it's hard to come up with the right skills and feats on the fly. If the generator cant do that, it isn't obviously a solution to this problem.