Anyone else not feel "the grind"

[syndalis]

Whoever feels like they need more at will powers to pull off cool things with variety is doing it wrong (IMO).

Jump off the back of your running mount in combat and drop kick the enemy, craft magic items that expand your capabilities in battle, expect enemies to attack? pre-configure the battlefield to your advantage (pour alchemical fire on the floor, tie sacks of rats to the ceiling for the archer to shoot and drop on the enemies, etc.)

The game is at its very best when you don't feel constrained by the powers... 4th still has it if you are willing to try and look past the MMO underpinnings.

 

[KarinsDad]

FWIW (and Karinsdad has discussed this in other threads), the longtooth shifter cleric *can* pull off the combo of ranged/melee cleric, as their stat bonuses line up perfectly and dumping Cha for a Cleric is No Big Deal(tm).

But there are plenty of other builds that can't, so I think the point still stands: "Diversifying can make your PC suck, and make it seem as if you have fewer choices than

I have seen a Dwarven Cleric do ok with it, but obviously there are pros and cons to any middle of the road build.

Here's an Elf Balanced build from the WotC optimization boards:

Elf Cleric/Radiant Servant/Demigod - Wizards Community

It is playable, people just need to not get so hung up on the min/maxing of PCs to the nth degree.

 

[Truename]

Felt it for a second time last night. Fighting Wraiths - Insubstantial and have an attack that causes weakness and regenerate who (in their right mind) thought that would be a good idea?. When your critical hit does 3 points of damage (half damage from being weakened and then half again because they are insubstantial), which the wraith can promptly regenerate, you can't help but feel the grind.

Still it's better than 3rd Ed where the Rogue would have been useless and the critical would have had no effect whatsoever.

I just recently had my level 5 party fight wraiths, and it was anything but a grind. I had all the wraiths gang up on the rogue at once. Pow--down to 3 hit points in one turn. The cleric healed him, and Turned Undead, but the party could see the wraiths regrouping and straggling back to hit the rogue again. It got tense. Add in a dark creeper who was simultaneously trying to bargain for one of the PCs' possessions and there was plenty to keep it interesting. And that's in a room with no real terrain or items of interest.

Spoiler

This was the "Black Shrine" encounter in Scales of War #3, "The Shadow Rift of Umbraforge."

The party ended up fleeing that encounter, although I think they would have won, barely, if they hadn't.

In general, I've been having the enemy focus fire a lot in this adventure, particularly on the back ranks, and it's been doing wonders for upping the tension. The party as a whole may not be outmatched, but nobody wants to see somebody go down. Combined with the limited healing available during combat, it's been a great series of fights.

 

[Bagpuss]

I just recently had my level 5 party fight wraiths, and it was anything but a grind.

Ah well we have no cleric and were only 2nd level (where you don't have many powers to use anyway), the only Divine Character was an Avenger and he had no Radiant At-Will powers. So we couldn't stop the regeneration. As a Warden I did a good job of drawing attention to myself, so I was often hit multiple times, unfortunately failed my saves eight times in a row. So was weakened the entire fight. I don't think the other players felt the grind, since I tended to be the weakened one, still there was nothing we could do about the regeneration or insubstantial.

We used the best tactics we could I think with me marking everything and the other players focusing on one wraith at a time.

 

[Truename]

Ah well we have no cleric and were only 2nd level (where you don't have many powers to use anyway), the only Divine Character was an Avenger and he had no Radiant At-Will powers. So we couldn't stop the regeneration. As a Warden I did a good job of drawing attention to myself, so I was often hit multiple times, unfortunately failed my saves eight times in a row. So was weakened the entire fight. I don't think the other players felt the grind, since I tended to be the weakened one, still there was nothing we could do about the regeneration or insubstantial.

We used the best tactics we could I think with me marking everything and the other players focusing on one wraith at a time.

To be fair, the party ran. It might have ended up a grind after all. (But I suspect not; they were hitting easily and did have a cleric to turn off one wraith at a time.)

My main point is there's nothing like the fear of imminent death to make fights more excitin'. Lately I've been doing that by focusing fire and doing everything I can to ignore the defender.

 

[kobold]

Whoever feels like they need more at will powers to pull off cool things with variety is doing it wrong (IMO).

I'm with you. I currently run a game for my 11 year old and his sons very Friday as my adult friends are no longer able to play silly games with me.
Back the 3e days the adults knew all the rules and how to best max them- those combats where a grind.
The kids grew up on anamie, all they care about is looking cool (they don't know their geeks yet). "Can a back flip over the river and use Shield Bash?" "I throw oil flasks and light it on fire so we can run through it" "Can I use the Rhino power to chareg in to the pillars and knock'em over"
They pick powers based on cool names or description not on max damage output, their actions are way over the top and exciting- I've never run a wuxia game before and they don't even know their doing it. It's what I tried to get the adults to do with Feng Shui when it came out, and all I got was " i hit him with my sword"
4e no gring yet, 2 TPKs and they still make it a riot every session

 

[hong]

my 11 year old and his sons

 

[Garthanos]

yeah I am really hoping thats a typo and at minimum a couple of words are missing.

 

[Garthanos]

Whoever feels like they need more at will powers to pull off cool things with variety is doing it wrong (IMO).

Jump off the back of your running mount in combat and drop kick the enemy, craft magic items that expand your capabilities in battle, expect enemies to attack? pre-configure the battlefield to your advantage (pour alchemical fire on the floor, tie sacks of rats to the ceiling for the archer to shoot and drop on the enemies, etc.)

The game is at its very best when you don't feel constrained by the powers... 4th still has it if you are willing to try and look past the MMO underpinnings.

See the thread on dynamic visualization

 

[Nytmare]

I currently run a game for my 11 year old and his sons

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5tmnBeNv18]YouTube - Flight of the Conchords[/ame]