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Anyone importing 4E’s’Used gear sells for 1/5th if at all’ to other RPG systems?

Are you importing 4E’s ’Used gear sells for 1/5th if at all’ to other RPG systems?


smdmcl

First Post
Every price percentage is "situational", from 20% to 100% or more. I just advocate 50% because after 24 years of gaming with many games going to 20th+ level and even a couple going above 30th I just think 50% is a fair number with which to just keep it all in the back ground. Make it 20% and it becomes worth the monetary profit advantages to make it an in game issue.

I've been playing for 27 years and have never had a campaign (as a player or DM) that went passed the low teens levels and have never been a fan of looting every stitch of mundane equipment for it's re-sale value.

My last 3rd edition character was a high-elf cleric that, after being appointed party treasurer, did not record mundane items or even copper coins as treasure. I recorded every silver coin or better, every gem and jewel, every objet d'art and every fine bottle of wine as treasure but not a single rust-pitted longsword.

It seems to me that a game palyed in worlds of fantasy, people should be expected to have different likes, dislikes and experiences. I can see where people prefer the 50% rule in their games. My group is playing 4th edition now and, if we felt strongly enough about it, we could revert to a 50% re-sale value but we just don't see the need. The 20% rule is working for us and everyone seems to be having fun.
 

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Shroomy

Adventurer
I don't have a problem with the 20% rule and as we play, if it ain't shiny or magical, we basically ignore it anyways.
 

StreamOfTheSky

Adventurer
That is definitely not what will occur.

Example: Party finds a decanter of endless waters. The higher the trade value of the item, the more likely said party will trade it in for gold which can be applied to a specific item tailored to them.

Seriously, how can you NOT see the 50% rule encouraging people to trade "junk" magic items for gold.

Like I said...they have every reason to take a possibly useful item until they find the need for cash for something they want more. It's the same in 4E, just that you're giving them less money for selling it. This means, obviously, it's more painful to sell things off and the party might hesitate a bit more, but I don't see why it's necessary. If you really want the party to hold onto items as hungrily as possible, why not only offer 5% of market price for them? Then they'd almost never sell things to stores!

Now, 4E also explicitly says the DM should take "wish lists" from players of items they'd like, to place in treasure as a special reward. So this is ultimately just shifting things around. Instead of saving up and buying that shiny new sword, it miraculously ends up in the treasure pile. I'm not against this, in fact while I don't ask for a wish list, I do try to purposely put in treasure once in a while blatantly useful to the characters. Often it will make sense, like the rogue getting a nice fleet warrior's array item off a fallen scout enemy, for example. I don't need to make items sell for 20% to make useful items "special." Effectively getting it for 50% is still a heck of a deal.

The party may get more for the decanter in 3E, but it's still nice to have. Maybe it's just the people I've played with have never been that absolutely devoted to getting one specific item (obviously, occasional exceptions, like most wizards wanting a blessed book ASAP). They tend to never spend so much that they have almost no gold left, and they don't mind waiting a bit longer to buy a particular item if something less ideal but cool turns up in a treasure pile. Generally, the attitude I most often see is along the lines of, "Well..I wasn't going to get [item] until maybe later...but if I ever get it at all, might as well be now, rather than pay full price later. I can just sell it next session if I change my mind."

And I still don't see how 20% is more realistic when the items work just as well as when they were new. IF the armor is cracked and cut, then sure. It's not worth as much. But if it's +1 full plate and giving a +9 armor bonus...it's clearly not that damaged. think about it from a wizard's perspective: He could take this wand at 50% market price and sell it for full or...spend that exact same amount plus experience points plus time...to sell it for full! What's the better deal here? You want to simulate limited storage space or on hand cash? For the former, the DM can always say no. "That mage has no desire to buy that rapier from you, cause this is Dwarf Land, and Dwarves don't buy rapiers." For the latter...the DMG has rules for this already.
 

Thasmodious

First Post
For me, 4e's economy accomplished what I wanted for a change in the D&D economy. I've hated the idea of a magic item shop economy since, well, always.

I was already using a magic threshold (innate pluses) for NPCs and weapon wielding monsters in 3e for when they were expected to have magical gear to meet their CR because I disliked the easy availability and hoarding of useful items for gp.

4e's system eliminated the need or rationality for a magic item shop based economy, fixed the problem of NPCs requiring magic gear, which the PC just treated as currency, and their system makes sense for a PoL setting. It's simple and elegant, from the 20% to the artificier mechanic to the magic threshold for monsters and NPCs.

I'm even planning a campaign in which the PCs are a group of magic item merchants, each with their own specialities in crafting and research. Adventures are centered around the challenges that would come from that - security, following the lore to find specific items, resource management, maintaining a network of contacts, generally fussing with all the overhead the people who only pay 20% would have to worry about.
 

malraux

First Post
Like I said...they have every reason to take a possibly useful item until they find the need for cash for something they want more.

IME, especially with 3e, every player has a specific set of items that they want above all else. Something like a decanter of endless water would get immediately swapped for a +2 stat enhancement. Or would be tossed in with a bunch of other stuff for a +4 state boost, or a weapon, or a ring of natural armor, etc.
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
In the end, the 20% rule works better for me because I can place "real treasure" on the NPCs without having to worry about the gear I give them unbalancing the player 'economy'. If the players want to loot the corpses and then role-play getting these items to market to get the best prices then I would be willing to do that. If they decided that this was 'fun' for them then I would have to make a change to start calculating the gear the NPC's carry as a part of their wealth and reduce the actual coins, gems, jewels, etc. that they carry to balance it.
About all I can say here is that if you're concerned about the value of some mundane non-magical gear upsetting your game's wealth balance to the point where you feel you have to adjust "real" treasure to account for it then may I suggest you might be trying to micromanage things a bit too closely.

If they're willing to go through the effort of recording it all and lugging it all home then let 'em have the money for it. I mean, face it: a few hundred g.p. worth of mundane gear just doesn't make that much of a difference in an adventure treasury worth thousands or tens of thousands in total....

Lanefan
 

Bagpuss

Legend
Of the things I liked about 4E, one of the chief ones was that players were no longer expected to be scrounging every mundane weapon and chunk of armor after battle. So much so I might implement it in other games. Anyone else feel the same way?

Since D&D is the only game I have ever seen players scrounge every mundane weapon and item left after a battle, no.

Same player's playing a modern game or sci-fi game only pick up premium items or stuff they can use. It seems just D&D that encourages this mentality from my players.
 

I agree with this. I can see 4E 20% "zero effort whatsoever" price. I can see 3E 50% "reasonable effort done off-screen" price. I think if you want to avoid an incentive for prolonged haggling sessions, the latter is the better mechanic.

The true incentive for prolonged haggling sessions is a patient and passive GM- not specifically a bad one, but not one I'd enjoy playing under personally.

"Wanna get a better price? Kill my competitors, ya worthless thug, and maybe then I could afford it!" Boom, Adventure, Narrative, and Verisimilitude.
 

Tetsubo

First Post
Why would I import what is arguably one of the *worst* rules in 4E into another system? 3.5 got it right, it didn't need 'fixing'.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Considering I was in the business of buying, making, selling, and faceting gemstones and jewelry for over 10 years its also one of the most knowledgeably said funny thing you have read all day.

I was referring to your use of "realistic" and "magic" in the same sentence. But I'm sure you knew that! :)

You've ruined it now - jokes are never funny when you have to explain them. :(
 

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