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Appeal of the defender?

jackston2

First Post
None of my players want to play a defender. Not in 3rd and still not in 4th.

According to them, defenders are "dumb servants" and "meat shields" whose sole job is to get hurt/ be incapacitated so the wizards and assassins can bask in the limelight.

Can anyone help me put a positive spin on the defender for my players?
 

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Fallen Seraph

First Post
KK, well talk about how defenders:

-Protect those around them.

-Go up close and personal and slaughter enemies in their wake (they may not have as much kick but still got plenty of kick)

-Have tons of powers that incapacitate and seriously hamper the abilities of opponents.

-They are the ones that manage to force a dragon, demon, tarrasque to its knees.
 

The_Fan

First Post
I've always preferred playing defenderish characters, and been SORELY disappointed with them.

The appeal to me is the appeal of standing up at the front lines, toe to toe with the enemy, no backing down. It's a knock down drag out, either him or me. Also a bit of "YOU. SHALL NOT! PASS!"
 

cferejohn

First Post
Well, maybe not a positive spin, but at least a less negative one:

From what we've seen in 4e, being a defender will suck a lot less. In 3/3.5, defenders were vunerable to a lot of save or die/suck effects (due to generally low will saves) and they also had no particular defense against things like touch attacks (since they had to get up close to deal damage), and were sent into a agonizing spiral of a) sucking and b) doing an obnoxious amount of math by ability drain (which the aforementioned touch attacks made them vunerable to).

Additionally in 4e, flying is going to be a lot rarer (at least at low levels), so the days of the melee fighter who is more or less impotent against a 5th level wizard (with fly and protection from arrows) should be over.

In the actual positive side, defenders are going to get some amount of battlefield control (stopping other creatures from shifting, shifting themselves or party members as a result of power), which should give them plenty of interesting things to do in combat, maybe even more than the wizard. In the 4e demo I played (not an official one), but the end of the final combat, the Wizard was pretty much spamming his magic missile for a while after using his Encounter and Daily powers, while the fighter was still maneuvering.
 

Shado

Explorer
How old are your players? Seems pretty narrow minded.

Never the less, mechanically there was good reason to favor casters in 3.x.

A lot of that is gone though with 4th. Fighters and Paladins really are bad ass.

The best way to get your players to think twice is to show them the errors of their ways. Have an NPC Fighter or Paladin save their sorry asses... or make a reoccurring villain a Defender that really wrecks hell with the team.

This won't be easy in 3.x, but just from the XP and other preview materials, Defenders are quite on par with the other classes and actually pretty key to a well rounded team. The difference with and without one on the team is actually quite apparent.
 

cferejohn

First Post
Fallen Seraph said:
-They are the ones that manage to force a dragon, demon, tarrasque to its knees.

Hope that's true in 4e. In 3/3.5 they are the ones who get killed/neutralized at range or by flyby attacks by the demon/dragon and get ripped up by the Tarasque by engaging it in melee while the actual damage is done from range.

But as I said, those days are hopefully over...
 

pawsplay

Hero
jackston2 said:
None of my players want to play a defender. Not in 3rd and still not in 4th.

According to them, defenders are "dumb servants" and "meat shields" whose sole job is to get hurt/ be incapacitated so the wizards and assassins can bask in the limelight.

Can anyone help me put a positive spin on the defender for my players?

Time to break out the Ars Magica!
 

1) They're tough as hell. Being "that guy who just won't die" is fun.

2) Wizards & rogues are tricksy and underhanded, Defenders are honest, straigtforward and dependable.

3) Defenders in 4e are not just "meatshields", the example Fighter in particular and the Paladin too have some of the best battlefield control (even if it is at a limited range).

Admitdadly Clerics had most of these things in 3.x, not Fighters or Paladins, if your players didn't really play Clerics in 3.x either, then they're probably just not interested. This isn't necessarily a bad thing.
 

jackston2

First Post
My fears grow as I see more and more preview material for 4th.

Compare the Justicar's powers with the Stormwarden. The Stormwarden can deal automatic damage to everyone adjacent to him and whirlwind slash them while hurling them back.

The Justicar? He can get hurt instead of his ally... and he can give his allies better saving throws (meaning he remains incapicitated while they are free to act).
 


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