Appraise - Realism at What Cost?

[Sigma]

Does everyone use Appraise as written? I'm a pretty by the book DM, but for my newest campaign, I decided to strike the skill from the game because the marginal increase in realism isn't worth the bookkeeping.

My basic beef with the skill is that it is an interruption in the flow of information from the DM to the player with very little benefit. It's an untrained skill, so the check gets made every time an item of unknown value is found. If the check fails, the DM has to a) give the player the wrong price and b) keep track of the correct price. So far, so good.

Next, the player sells the item. A lot of groups love to play out the shopping experience, complete with offers and counter-offers, bluffs and sense motives. In that environment, I can see a faulty appraise check being relevant. The NPC should make an appraise check and offer the player an amount based on that result.

The problem arises when your group wants to speed through shopping or the NPC knows the appropriate price for the item. Do you just let the players sell at the appraise price? Do you let them sell at the lower of the appraise price or the actual price (thus putting a cap of 100% on the resale)? Or do you just let the player sell at the actual price and ignore the appraise price (thus making the appraise price a short-lived and irrelevant fiction).

I guess my question indicates which of these options I use - I give my players the book price. How does everyone else handle appraise and shopping? Is it fun?

 

[Teemu]

What were the 3.5 designers thinking when they decided to keep Appraise...?

That's my opinion.

 

[lukelightning]

I pretty much ignore Appraise. If anything, it should be handled as a Knowledge skill.

 

[Arnwyn]

We don't use it as written. For us, it's:

- DM rolls.
- Success at DC x (depends on rarity, etc) = PC knows item's book value
- Failure by 1-9 = PC doesn't know
- Failure by 10 or more = PC doesn't know or gets it wrong (as per appraise skill)

This is a bit quicker for us.

 

[nittanytbone]

The DC for most appraise checks is really easy.

If the party wizard (lets say he has +3 int) takes 10 on the check, he gets a 13 and immediately knows the value of any common or well-known object. If the other 3-4 members of the party all make helping rolls, then probably two of them will succeed, giving a +4 bonus. Finally, you'll probably have some equipment (scales or magnifying glass) that gives a +2 bonus.

That means at first level with no skills and minimal equipment invested the typical party can get a 19 on its appraise checks. Throw in identify spells, craft synergies, racial synergies, bardic lore, or a rogue with a few ranks in appraise and a party of low level should be able to easily beat a DC 20 check most of the time.

That's good enough to cover anything that isn't (A) a plot point or (B) of epic rarity. Thus, the flow of information for the most part is uninterrupted except for the really important items which probably should require some research or interaction to learn about.

 

[Crothian]

We use it with not problems. Even with quick buying and selling, it never causes problesm

 

[melkorspawn]

I played a low magic campaign (no pc spellcasters, few magic items) where appraise checks could be used to identify items. It was nice to have people spending ranks in appraise and being able to feel good about it.

 

[Shadowdweller]

One of the more heavily House Ruled items in the games I run. I use Appraise in three separate ways. In all cases I (as DM) roll for them:

1) Classic PC trying to estimate the value of an item (very typically a gem). If they fail by more than a few points they might miss the price by an order of magnitude (10x) as opposed to the RAW. IRL, how many of you would be capable of differentiating between a small cut garnet and a ruby?

2) I allow a PC to use the skill to (actively) identify common, non-magic items (in place of an appropriate Knowledge skill if Appraise is higher). Such items might include alchemical devices, healing salves, the exact nature of the multi-spiggot teapot-like device. Or determine whether a weapon/piece of armor appears to be manufactured by Dwarves or Elves.

3) I use the skill as a passive way to notice what might be of value. This might come into play, for instance, when a PC ransacks a wardrobe full of clothing. The PC might very well bypass some garment that is actually valuable albeit nonmagic. It might allow a PC passing that teapot on the mantlepiece to realize that the teapot is worth money. Since I have a tendancy to give a lot of loot that is not apparent as loot (would bandits really be carrying coin, or possibly a dozen bolts of linen?), I find the PCs end up lacking if I DON'T do things this way.

 

[Shadowdweller]

Actually, make that four ways:

4) I've used the skill in the past as a way to let theft-minded Rogue-types size up the relative value of potential marks.

 

[wedgeski]

We play Appraise as written with few to no problems.