Archer Bard build help please

[Herzog]

[MENTION=97599]gorfnab[/MENTION]: race has to be human, so Arcane Archer is out.
Imbue arrow seems nice, but I have yet to see a list of (Bard or Sorcerer) spells that actually benefit from putting them on arrows (most AoE spells have decent ranges....). If you can give me a list of spells that make this worth while I could try to convince my DM that race restrictions on PrC's should be dropped on a human-only campaign....

[MENTION=85158]Dandu[/MENTION]: Either you're including Versatile spellcaster or we're talking about different Feats.
Lyric Spell won't let you mix-and-match: it's either all bardic music uses or none. (unless I've missed an errata somewhere...)

 

[Dandu]

I'm sorry I meant Metamagic Song

This sort of (ab)use is talked about in a BG thread. Turns out, it requires a lot of feats to work...

I wouldn't recommend it now that I know more about it.

Just take Rapid Shot and some other archery stuff. Archery's pretty feat intensive, so maybe

Bard2/Paladin or Fighter2/Bard16? One gets you Cha to saves, the other grants 3 feats. The Savage Bard class trades a good reflex save for a good fort save, and gives access to some rather good spells.

Keep in mind the Heroism spell (Bard 2, SpC) grants a bonus feat for 10 minutes/level. Alter Self lets you assume forms with large NA, like the Troglodyte or Tren. Haste is another good spell, for it allows you to make an extra attack on a full attack. With Rapid Shot, that's 3 attacks at your highest attack bonus before initiatives are factored in.

Also, here's a dirty trick: you know how Blink gives you a 20% miss chance to attacks? Well, the funny thing about spells that affect you is that they cease to affect things that leave your possession, like arrows. Casting Blink allows you to attack opponents as if they were flatfooted without a miss chance if you use arrows... well, as written anyways.

So, I think I'm going to recommend something along the lines of the following

Feats:
1, Melodic Casting
1. Knowledge Devotion
3. Words of Creation
3. Point Blank Shot
4. Rapid Shot
6. Song of the Heart
9.
12.
15.
18.
Skill trick: Collector of Stories
Spells: Inspirational Boost, Improvisation, Alter Self, Heroics, Blink, Haste, Ruin Delver's Fortune

 

[Herzog]

Are you calling Words of Creation Words of Inspiration on purpose? Or is that a strange mind-warp you're suffering from

Having most Feats I should take by lvl 6 looks good, although I'm wondering if dropping two caster levels on a sub-par caster like the Bard is a good idea....

I like the Savage Bard, except for the fact we already have two Druids in the party, so most of the new spells are covered by them already.

Any suggestions for the 'bonus feat' from Heroism?

Edit:
After examining the suggested Feats, I found your progression doesn't take into account the requirements:

Melodic Casting->Perform 4 ranks, Spellcraft 4 ranks, bardic music class feature.=>lvl 1+
Knowledge Devotion->Knowledge(any) 5 ranks=>lvl 2+
Song of the Heart (Eberron)->Bardic music class feature, inspire competence ability, Perform 6 ranks=>lvl 3+
Words of Creation (BoED)->Int 15, Cha 15, base Will save bonus +5.=>Bard 6+,8+ with 2 lvls of fighter

Not a huge problem, but it makes the progression slightly different and makes the levels of fighter a possible hindrance when going for words of creation.

 

[Dandu]

Right, I forgot about some of the prerequisites, though Melodic casting can indeed be taken at bard level 1. Your skills come in first, then feats iirc.

Just swap around feats and class levels until you find something that works better.

Dropping two caster levels on the bard could be a problem, but you don't seem to want to focus on spellcasting anyways, so I thought it'd be less of an issue. Besides, there's always wands...

As for Heroics, everyone loves Improved Initiative. Use a Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend spell and take the feat Practiced Spellcaster and you've got a pretty good duration on that and Alter Self. (Incidentally, when you use Inspire Greatness, you get two bonus hit dice, which gives you two extra caster levels according to Practiced Spellcaster iirc.)

Lyric Spell will still be useful, as will be Lingering Song

Maybe something like:

Feats:
1, Melodic Casting
1. Song of the Heart
3. Knowledge Devotion
3. Point Blank Shot
4. Rapid Shot
6. Obtain Familiar (Raven)
9. Words of Creation
12. Lingering Song
15. Lyric Spell
18. Versatile Spellcaster

Ravens make good familiars because they can speak and have all the skill ranks you have. This translates to a +2 on pretty much all your skills through Aid Another and a great skillmonkey partner.

 

[Greenfield]

Bard/Paladin? Bards must be Chaotic, and Paladins can't be. And IIRC, Paladins can't have ever been Evil or Chaotic. I might be mistaken, but if a Paladin loses his alignment he stops being a Paladin and can't come back short of extreme measures. Thus, if he didn't have that alignment to begin with...

I might be thinking a house rule there.

What strikes me as funny is that the thread started with a request for a Bard Archer, and several posts seem to be strongly hinting that the build shouldn't include the Bard at all, since he's a "sub-par caster".

 

[gorfnab]

Bard/Paladin? Bards must be Chaotic, and Paladins can't be. And IIRC, Paladins can't have ever been Evil or Chaotic. I might be mistaken, but if a Paladin loses his alignment he stops being a Paladin and can't come back short of extreme measures. Thus, if he didn't have that alignment to begin with...

Paladin of Freedom variant from Unearthed Arcana is Chaotic Good.

This variant opens up a nice Gish build for bards:
Bard 8/ Paladin of Freedom 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 3

 

[Herzog]

I've shifted the focus of the build somewhat toward Spellcasting and Sneak Attack (couldn't help myself) using (one of) the following build(s):

Bard 6/Lyric Thaumaturge 4/Sublime Chord 2/Unseen Seer 2/Virtuoso 6

or, better:
Bard1/Rogue1/Bard 3/Unseen Seer 2/Lyric Thaumaturge 3/Sublime Chord 2/Virtuoso 8

With both, I can pick up Sniper's Shot(to remove the 30' limit from SA) and Hunter's Eye (to add CL/3 SA dice) and persist them.
The first build gives more spells, the second more SA and earlier access to the spells.

Both suffer from the fact I can persist the spells only very late in the build, unless I Persist one of them (Sniper's Shot) using Lyric Spell(no cap) and cast the other one (Hunter's Eye) when I am able to sneak attack.

I'm still planning to take Knowledge Devotion and Melodic Casting, but being Feat-starved and also planning to take three feats (including extend spell) to pull of the above and Able Learner to meet the PrC prereqs I'll have to drop (some/most) of the inspiration boost feats and any archery feats.

I'm wondering whether the persist is going to be worth it (I can also persist other spells, of course) or if I should focus on the boosts instead.....