Archery Character - Ranger or Fighter?

[Kaiyanwang]

A spellcaster or an outsider (so, another type of spellcaster) have big problems if grappled. high concentrations for the spells they want to cast.

So if grappled, since concentration in grapple is high, they must remove the arrow and lose the action.

Synergy with spellcasters meant pit or black tentacles + bull rush. Stuff like that.

if stuff like this, or targeting special items, does not happen in your games this does not make maneuver and features useless I am sorry.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

On a side note, I plan to nerf the bejeesus out of the current concentration DC for using a spell in a grapple, it's just frigging stupid. 10 + CMD + spell level is just simply impossible after a few levels. Grapple ALREADY completely shuts down any casting that requires somatic or material components (unless you had already gotten them out from your pouch a previous turn), with 100% success rate. To make a literally impossible DC to cast spells that don't fall into those categories in addition to that is INSANE. It's really sad when you're relying on magic items or wands to save you from a grapple rather than your own "skill," and the DC is just so out of whack compared to the other ones.

I'm actually rather on edge about this issue because I was just informed of it the other day when I joined a level 14 game. I mentioned that I had a Dim Door prepped as an emergency for grapple escape and was told it would almost certainly not work, as the last grapple monster the party had fought had CMD 45. I have anklets of translocation, so no biggie, but isn't it pathetic that a 1400 gp item is more reliable than my own spells? I'm all for keeping casters in check from breaking the game, but if a caster had a spell with a save DC of 50, people would be livid.

/rant

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Back to Archer Fighter, I'd like it better if it lost some of the worthless class features, had some things re-ordered, and kept armor training I and II at least. Heck, just not giving trick shots till level 11 at all (again, so you get AT I and II) and providing the full list at that point would be a huge fix all by itself.

If I were to rearrange, I'd probably do this:

- Keep Armor Training I and II
- Remove Safe Shot completely. PB Master feat exists already.
- Evasive Archer replaces AT III at level 11 (and goes to +4 at 15)
- Volley replaces AT IV at level 15
- Trick Shot replaces Weapon Training II-IV at levels 9, 13, and 17, and has all options immediately open.

 

[Kaiyanwang]

On a side note, I plan to nerf the bejeesus out of the current concentration DC for using a spell in a grapple,

I see the thing in the opposite way. IMHO cast in grapple should be impossible. And i consider high level concentration check far too easy without optimization.

Casters must avoid being grappled and threatened, and in case, melee are there to save them. the fact that concentrations are too easy (barring grapple, which is good as is) mantains some high level imbalance.

And Freedom of Movements is still too strong.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I wouldn't mind raising the cast defensively DC. At the very least, I plan to make it 10 + 3* spell level, so it starts off easier and is harder for high level spells.

But seriously...the grapple DC is broken.

 

[tylermalan]

Ahhh, ok, I see what you mean.

 

[tylermalan]

Is there any one major, awesome feat that an archery character should be working toward?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Clustered Shots (BAB +6, feats you'll need anyway) from UC to make DR something to never worry about again? Improved Precise Shot (BAB +11, feats you'll need anyway) is invaluable to avoid concealment, penalty for soft cover of allies in the way, etc... and is probably my most desired archery feat for any character. And Point Blank Master so you don't get screwed by Step Up is quite important, IMO. A spellcaster can cast defensively and only suffers one AoO for casting. When the melee guy follows your 5 ft step? You're just boned, and he gets an AoO for every shot you take, and does more damage than you.

Those and Point Blank/Rapid/Precise Shot I'd say are staples for almost any archer. Beyond that it's really up to you. UC has a bunch of feats to eventually threaten a sizeable area with bowshots, and with Improved Precise Shot you can ignore less than full concealment and cover (which by RAW would prevent making AoOs, annoyingly).

 

[Squire James]

On a side note, I plan to nerf the bejeesus out of the current concentration DC for using a spell in a grapple, it's just frigging stupid. 10 + CMD + spell level is just simply impossible after a few levels. Grapple ALREADY completely shuts down any casting that requires somatic or material components (unless you had already gotten them out from your pouch a previous turn), with 100% success rate. To make a literally impossible DC to cast spells that don't fall into those categories in addition to that is INSANE. It's really sad when you're relying on magic items or wands to save you from a grapple rather than your own "skill," and the DC is just so out of whack compared to the other ones.
/rant

I have the feeling the grapple Concentration DC was designed before the concept of CMD was finalized, and the extra +10 shouldn't be there. I feel CMD + spell level is more than reasonable.

 

[tylermalan]

This character will be in the same party as the alchemist I'm making at level 6, by the way. Archery Ranger.

The guy has Point Blank/Rapid/Precise already, plus Improved Precise. Also Weapon Focus. Passed on Point Blank Master for Improved Precise. What do you mean "threaten a sizeable area?"