Are alignments relative?

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I have a question for the other folks out there, and it's pretty much there in the title of the thread: Are alignments relative?

By this I mean, we all have a concept of what is good and what is evil, but isn't this shaped by the culture we're from? To use an analogy everyone can relate to, during the cold war, America was viewed (by Americans) as good, and the Soviet Union was the Evil Empire. But in the USSR, roles would have been reversed.

To use a fantasy analogy, take David Eddings' The Belgariad. We view the whole story from Belgarath and Co.'s perspective. But suppose it had been written from the perspective of Torak and his crew? Wouldn't Belgarath be LE instead of LG? Doesn't it just depend on whose writing the history, as it were?

I'd be interested in your thoughts on these matters.

Thanks,

Alan

P.S. Woohoo! First thread ever.

 

[hong]

P.S. Woohoo! First thread ever.

Indeed, an excellent topic to choose for your first thread ever.


Hong "duck and cover" Ooi

 

[Tsyr]

In a "standard" DnD setting, the answer is no.

Good and Evil are concrete forces, often (depending on the setting) with their own planes. They can be detected positivly by magic, and warded against by the same.

 

[Green Knight]

In D&D, no. Doesn't matter if the culture thinks they're good. If they commit evil acts, then they're evil.

Edit: Decided to keep the real world out of it.

 

[Furn_Darkside]

Salutations,

Nice post- and Tsyr beat me to my answer.

Though you could still put together a world more "relative"-

Imagine those who are "evil", that demons appear to them as they were angels- good, graceful, and beautiful.. but to the enemies of that faith they appear as ugly, incomprehensible monsters.

The detect and protection abilities are now just against another religion instead of alignment.

I am not a moral relativist- so I probably am not the best person to help you throw this together.

Are you putting together a campeign around these ideas?

FD

 

[Psion]

It's already been said, but I will make it resounding:

No.

Now, there are two important caveats here:

1) It is not absolute, either. For those who aren't very deep into moral philosophy, just because something is relative does not make it absolute. Absolute is a subset of moral theaory called "realism." The D&D alignment system fits teh description of realism, but not absolutism.

2) "Good" and "Evil" per D&D is not the same as "Good" and "Evil" per a given society. The alignment system is an independant moral standard that does not take into account the views of a particular society.

 

[Wicht]

To chime in with the Chorus, in normal DnD, alignments are not relative but are divinely dictated.

In the real world whether you believe alignments to be relative or not largely depends on your believe in a supreme being.

 

[TiQuinn]

I have a question for the other folks out there, and it's pretty much there in the title of the thread: Are alignments relative?

By this I mean, we all have a concept of what is good and what is evil, but isn't this shaped by the culture we're from? To use an analogy everyone can relate to, during the cold war, America was viewed (by Americans) as good, and the Soviet Union was the Evil Empire. But in the USSR, roles would have been reversed.

To use a fantasy analogy, take David Eddings' The Belgariad. We view the whole story from Belgarath and Co.'s perspective. But suppose it had been written from the perspective of Torak and his crew? Wouldn't Belgarath be LE instead of LG? Doesn't it just depend on whose writing the history, as it were?

I'd be interested in your thoughts on these matters.

Thanks,

Alan

P.S. Woohoo! First thread ever.

An alignment is not relative because of its use in several game mechanics. Certain actions, however, can be seen as good or evil, and this usually depends on the DM's point of view.

A little clearer than my first post.....

 

[Furn_Darkside]

2) "Good" and "Evil" per D&D is not the same as "Good" and "Evil" per a given society. The alignment system is an independant moral standard that does not take into account the views of a particular society.

Really?

I don't have it near, but doesn't the DMG suggest prescribing alignment to cities and their stat blocks?

FD

 

[Mouseferatu]

Of course, while alignments are not relative in the "official" game, a D&D world in which they are relative might prove very interesting.

Detect Alignment spells would judge by the prejudices and morals of the caster, allowing for all sorts of misinterpretations. Holy wars between "good" churches would be rampant. Even the simple act of slaying a monster would take on a new level of meaning, at least for the players if not for the characters.

If you want a "proper" answer, no, they're not relative. But if you want 'em to be, go for it. Have fun. Just let us know how it goes.